Meet the Maker: Eden Cider Tasting & SipScout Party

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hello hello everyone

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Thirsty Thursday

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yes always on Thirsty Thursdays

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getting our weekend started off right

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um we are here tonight with Riley Duffy of Eden

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Specialty Ciders

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we are so excited to have you here Riley

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hi thanks for having me

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happy to be here

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our pleasure

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um and so tonight

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we are talking all about Eden Specialty Ciders

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I have been a really big fan of Eden ciders

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gosh I don’t even remember

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I’m trying to think of where I first discovered them

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before you knew me

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so at least 6 years I’ve known about Eden um

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is that so interesting

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where did I first discover you guys Riley

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um maybe at cider festival

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maybe at a cider festival probably

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um but yeah

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and you know

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many of you know

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I’m born and raised in Massachusetts

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so when I found that there was this Vermont cidery

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I was very excited about it

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and besides that connection

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then I tasted their ciders and just fell in love

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like that you know

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I have a really long cider history

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um I studied abroad in Spain

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got to do the whole Spanish cider thing

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then came back here and everything was sweet and weird

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and I didn’t know what was going on

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um and so this was really

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I feel like Eden was one of my very early introductions

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to the craft cider revolution

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as I like to call it here in the States

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moving away from kind of the Jolly Rancher

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sweet ciders that were so prevalent for a long time

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and moving into the more heirloom dry tart

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feels like you’re biting into an apple kind of ciders

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and so I am thrilled that be sharing Eden Cider

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with all of you

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um this month

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and getting to introduce you to Riley as well

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and my background with respect to cider

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initially was you know

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moonlit at an Irish pub and we served Strongbow

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and that was about it

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and I feel like in no small part

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my decision to pursue and become a certified cider

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professional

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uh was due to the introduction of Eden ciders

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thanks to you little lady

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uh yeah when I first met Evan

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he was all about wine

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only about wine Sommelier

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like really deep in the wine world for sure

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and yeah this

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this one in particular

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the last one we’ll try today was life affirming

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a revelation

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life affirming

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writing down okay

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someone from

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because you’ve had ice wines plenty of times right

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and so you had a comparison point

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as well to what an ice cider is

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but yeah we’re

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we’re thrilled and delighted to

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have Riley here with us today

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and talk about these beautiful ciders from Eden

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um yeah and so we’re getting ahead of ourselves

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I did we just

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we’re so excited about cider

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we just start drinking cider

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we just started talking about our passion for cider

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so um now that we have a bunch of people here

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let me just quickly reintroduce myself

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for those of you who haven’t met us before

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I am Suzanne

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I’m the founder of The Crafty Cask

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where we are all about

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celebrating and supporting craft alcohol makers

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like the fabulous Eden Specialty Ciders

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and my name is Evan Rothrock

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uh certified

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Sommelier certified

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cited professional as uh

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we alluded to there

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um and yeah

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I guess that’s enough for me

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craft booze enthusiast and nerd

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if you have any questions about any craft booze

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nerd alert this is your guy for sure and Riley

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would you like to introduce yourself yeah

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hi I’m Riley Duffy

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I am the National Sales

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Director for Eden Specialty Ciders

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um I’m also very involved in the production aspect

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my husband is the cider maker at Eden

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um I’ve been with Eden for about 4 years

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I come from the wine world

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um so I worked in natural wine for about a decade

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and I call myself a cider defector

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because I really think that cider needs champions

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and much like you all

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Eden really changed things for me

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um I met the founder

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Eleanor Leger

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she and her husband started Eden in uh 2007 um

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and Eleanor has a very interesting entre into the world

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and is a very big player in American cider

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uh she’s the

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the board president of the American Cider Association

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and has been really instrumental in

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sort of getting a lot

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of these interesting cider styles

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recognized as what they are

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both in consumers and sort of anecdotal

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drinking culture

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and also with the government um

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so with the

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the TTB and recognizing ice cider as its own um

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beverage in the

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in the United States

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ice cider is the only North American uh

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dessert cider

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and it’s something that we can claim

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and there’s very few things that we

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as New World livers can claim haha

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so that’s pretty exciting

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um but I don’t wanna get too ahead of myself yeah

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this is yeah

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and I think it sounds like

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we’re all so passionate about this stuff that you know

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bear with us everyone

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this is probably gonna be

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one of those boozy rabbit holes where we tan

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gentleize and kind of go down different paths

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but for those who back around

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yeah of course

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it’ll be a spiral yeah

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that’s right

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that’s right

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and so for those of you who are new to us

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um this month

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and her just joining us for the first time

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what we typically do is for the first half hour

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45 minutes we kinda keep it in this format here

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so we can have this conversation

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do the education

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teach you all about this taste through everything

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and everyone can hear it all um

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and then as we kinda wind that down

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we will promote

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any of you who wanna be panelists as well

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so that you can turn on your cameras

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on mute yourselves

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and then we’ll just kind of join in happy hour style

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after you’ve

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had a little bit of your drink or two

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and our loosen

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we’re all loosen up and ready to just chitchat um

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but while we’re in this webinar format

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please please

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please use the web in our chat

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so if you have questions about what we’re talking about

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if you have

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random questions that we’re not talking about

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that is totally fine

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and we will make sure

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I’m keeping an eye on it

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and so I’ll

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make sure to get those questions in to Evan and Riley

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um but yeah

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let’s end yourself and myself

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and myself yes

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I know a lot about cider

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and I’m very passionate about cider

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and I’m throw that

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I turned you on to it

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and that ciders a big part of our life um

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so let’s crack into our first one

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this is the tasting order that we’re gonna do here

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we’re gonna go with Deep Cut first

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and then Troc Star

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Brute Rosé and then Tree Beard

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does that sound about right to you

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the order Riley

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yeah great um

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and yeah and so I’d love to hear in the chat

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while we’re getting started

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and we’ll be pouring our first one here

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and poor Riley

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she’s in a hopel right now

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and her cider is stuck in Wisconsin

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and so she does not

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get to taste along with us

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but luckily she’s

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she’s very familiar

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as she has said

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I’ve had it once or twice

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yeah great um

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and so I would

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but I’d love to hear from all of you

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kind of if you’re cider curious

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cider enthusiast

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if you know a lot about cider

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you know and if you have any

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favorite cider

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brands that you know of

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just to kinda

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orient us a little bit

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with what your familiarity is with cider

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if you wanna

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throw some thoughts in the webinar chat as we’re

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getting started here

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um oh Jay starting us off with a great first question

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why is cider not a wine

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and I will add on to that

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for everyone

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why is cider not a wine

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and when do you drink

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cider right

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we all know when to drink wine

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like we drink it with food

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like do you drink it like a wine

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does it replace wine

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is it replace beer

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is it like how

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how do you where does it fit in your drinking life

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as well oh yeah

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that’s a good

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uh addendum

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because I feel like that’s part of the

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the challenge with cider

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a little bit

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is people you know

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they have a steak

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and they go and

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get a red wine

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and they have a burger

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and they go and get a beer and like

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they just don’t think about

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when did you have cider

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get into that dialogue

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and so I’d love to hear about that

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as we talk about

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why is cider not a wine

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let’s start there well

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I uh I think that

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probably Riley

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has some strong

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opinions about

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this you know

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the way that she nodded there yeah

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go for it Riley yeah

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why don’t you take the lead on this one

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cause I feel

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a certain way

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I would say

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this is an easy answer for me

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cider is wine

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it’s just made with apples

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in the same way

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I think that um

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I think that there are two sort of

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categories of cider

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in the market

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that can be a little bit confusing

274
00:08:19,333 –> 00:08:21,133
there is a category

275
00:08:21,433 –> 00:08:24,066
that is made for easy

276
00:08:24,066 –> 00:08:24,866
consumption

277
00:08:25,500 –> 00:08:27,033
for a low price point

278
00:08:27,033 –> 00:08:29,500
and something sort of

279
00:08:31,400 –> 00:08:36,266
made with ingredients like concentrated apple juice

280
00:08:36,266 –> 00:08:37,733
some sugar some yeast

281
00:08:37,733 –> 00:08:40,033
very much made um

282
00:08:40,866 –> 00:08:43,100
I don’t want to say like a beer

283
00:08:43,466 –> 00:08:44,800
it’s impossible like a beer

284
00:08:44,800 –> 00:08:46,166
that’s kind of a bugaboo

285
00:08:46,400 –> 00:08:48,400
but um it’s put together

286
00:08:48,400 –> 00:08:49,666
it’s made to taste the same

287
00:08:49,666 –> 00:08:52,366
every single time there’s a recipe that’s followed

288
00:08:52,666 –> 00:08:54,033
there’s that boom

289
00:08:54,033 –> 00:08:55,833
that’s not what we’re doing

290
00:08:55,933 –> 00:08:58,933
yeah um what we are doing is pressing fresh apples

291
00:08:58,933 –> 00:09:00,633
and fermenting them

292
00:09:00,633 –> 00:09:01,700
and that’s it

293
00:09:01,700 –> 00:09:03,033
just like with a wine

294
00:09:03,033 –> 00:09:04,333
you would take fresh grapes

295
00:09:04,333 –> 00:09:05,933
press them and ferment them

296
00:09:06,000 –> 00:09:08,933
it’s it’s identical processes really

297
00:09:09,133 –> 00:09:12,133
um and yeah

298
00:09:12,133 –> 00:09:13,333
and also don’t

299
00:09:13,333 –> 00:09:16,866
I guess I would add that it’s a fruit

300
00:09:16,866 –> 00:09:20,000
well saying that cider is a wine

301
00:09:21,300 –> 00:09:25,733
with wine being defined as a fermented fruit beverage

302
00:09:26,533 –> 00:09:27,800
there is enough

303
00:09:27,800 –> 00:09:30,066
examples and expressions in history and tradition

304
00:09:30,066 –> 00:09:35,400
of making wine from apples that it has its own name

305
00:09:35,400 –> 00:09:39,066
and if there was a lot of blackberry wine that was made

306
00:09:39,066 –> 00:09:41,833
and multiple cultures made blackberry wine

307
00:09:41,833 –> 00:09:43,500
and probably over time

308
00:09:43,500 –> 00:09:45,300
it would have developed its own name

309
00:09:45,300 –> 00:09:46,733
yeah yeah that’s fair

310
00:09:46,733 –> 00:09:48,833
I think one of the things that

311
00:09:48,900 –> 00:09:50,700
maybe causes a little confusion

312
00:09:50,700 –> 00:09:52,000
it is the carbonation

313
00:09:52,266 –> 00:09:53,866
honestly I think that’s where people think like

314
00:09:53,866 –> 00:09:55,833
this is more like a beer than a wine

315
00:09:55,900 –> 00:09:58,733
simply because it’s often carbonated

316
00:09:58,733 –> 00:10:01,300
so help me understand a little bit

317
00:10:01,400 –> 00:10:02,866
so it is a wine

318
00:10:02,866 –> 00:10:05,100
but why is it mostly carbonated

319
00:10:05,100 –> 00:10:07,233
like versus wine is not mostly carbonated

320
00:10:07,233 –> 00:10:09,000
what’s that kind of piece about

321
00:10:09,000 –> 00:10:11,166
it really is um

322
00:10:11,400 –> 00:10:14,633
it is to sort of appease the modern palette

323
00:10:15,733 –> 00:10:17,866
there is still cider on the market

324
00:10:17,866 –> 00:10:19,800
we make a few still ciders

325
00:10:20,200 –> 00:10:21,033
it’s beautiful

326
00:10:21,033 –> 00:10:21,600
it’s lovely

327
00:10:21,600 –> 00:10:23,300
it’s very wine like

328
00:10:23,900 –> 00:10:28,833
I think that it’s a matter of

329
00:10:30,466 –> 00:10:35,566
the tradition of what sort of happened when you know

330
00:10:36,100 –> 00:10:38,866
post prohibition cider never really came back

331
00:10:38,866 –> 00:10:42,033
and when it did it came back as a as sort of a bubbly

332
00:10:43,533 –> 00:10:44,433
it’s beverage

333
00:10:44,433 –> 00:10:46,100
and that’s what was recognized

334
00:10:46,100 –> 00:10:48,333
and that’s just sort of what’s taken hold

335
00:10:48,466 –> 00:10:53,200
um I would say it adds a lot of

336
00:10:53,200 –> 00:10:57,233
of nuance and often cider can be pretty acidic

337
00:10:57,733 –> 00:11:00,766
so it sort of helps mitigate that

338
00:11:01,833 –> 00:11:03,200
but I think it’s mostly

339
00:11:03,200 –> 00:11:05,400
just because it’s always been done that way

340
00:11:05,466 –> 00:11:07,166
yeah yeah interesting

341
00:11:07,233 –> 00:11:09,133
um yeah and to that let’s

342
00:11:09,133 –> 00:11:12,233
let’s do a little quick cheers everyone to our first

343
00:11:12,233 –> 00:11:13,700
our first deep cut

344
00:11:13,700 –> 00:11:14,300
we’re starting out with

345
00:11:14,300 –> 00:11:16,533
and I just took a sip of this and I’ve had it before

346
00:11:16,533 –> 00:11:19,033
but man it is so

347
00:11:19,133 –> 00:11:20,966
it’s so like earthy

348
00:11:21,000 –> 00:11:21,933
there’s something just so

349
00:11:21,933 –> 00:11:23,800
like earthy about it that I love

350
00:11:23,800 –> 00:11:25,900
like it has like a weight to it

351
00:11:25,900 –> 00:11:27,933
kind of an even like the color of it

352
00:11:27,933 –> 00:11:30,266
so Riley tell us a little bit about this first

353
00:11:30,266 –> 00:11:31,133
this first expression

354
00:11:31,133 –> 00:11:32,733
deep cut yeah

355
00:11:32,733 –> 00:11:35,300
so this is a perfect sort of

356
00:11:35,500 –> 00:11:37,500
analog from our wine conversation

357
00:11:38,200 –> 00:11:39,000
that weight

358
00:11:39,000 –> 00:11:42,300
that a lot of the aromatics are coming from tannin

359
00:11:42,333 –> 00:11:43,566
from the apple

360
00:11:43,866 –> 00:11:45,000
just like in wine

361
00:11:45,200 –> 00:11:46,500
apples have tannin

362
00:11:46,866 –> 00:11:48,700
uh apples have tannin all throughout

363
00:11:48,700 –> 00:11:50,000
they have it in the seeds

364
00:11:50,000 –> 00:11:52,100
the flesh and the skin

365
00:11:52,200 –> 00:11:55,433
whereas wine only has tannin in the skin

366
00:11:55,600 –> 00:11:57,800
um so you’re able to get a lot of extraction and

367
00:11:57,800 –> 00:12:00,033
and tannin is sort of what dries your mouth

368
00:12:00,033 –> 00:12:01,933
so acid makes your mouth water

369
00:12:02,066 –> 00:12:03,900
tannin sort of dries you out

370
00:12:04,100 –> 00:12:07,000
and for everyone else who left an earthiness that’s

371
00:12:07,000 –> 00:12:08,500
that’s what you’re really tasting there

372
00:12:08,500 –> 00:12:12,033
so we actually aged some of our tannic cider

373
00:12:12,033 –> 00:12:15,333
heirloom cider specific apples um

374
00:12:15,333 –> 00:12:18,200
we set a little bit of the really special stuff aside

375
00:12:18,333 –> 00:12:21,433
for a couple of years to age on its own and really

376
00:12:21,433 –> 00:12:22,833
develop beautifully

377
00:12:23,000 –> 00:12:25,200
and then we add a little of that tannic cider

378
00:12:25,200 –> 00:12:27,566
into a fresh fermented cider

379
00:12:27,666 –> 00:12:30,833
so we have a fresh base of Macintosh and Empire apples

380
00:12:30,833 –> 00:12:32,433
very lively acidity

381
00:12:32,600 –> 00:12:34,533
really fruity beautiful

382
00:12:34,666 –> 00:12:36,666
and then we add that tannic cider

383
00:12:36,666 –> 00:12:37,933
and it’s almost like

384
00:12:37,933 –> 00:12:40,600
I like in it to adding salt to a baked good

385
00:12:40,700 –> 00:12:43,866
it gives that baseline to almost taste against

386
00:12:43,866 –> 00:12:45,233
so you get that earthiness

387
00:12:45,233 –> 00:12:47,733
but this like bright fruit on top of it

388
00:12:47,733 –> 00:12:48,400
and it’s sort of

389
00:12:48,400 –> 00:12:51,333
because of the foil that both of those come through

390
00:12:52,000 –> 00:12:53,866
yeah it’s really quite beautiful

391
00:12:53,866 –> 00:12:54,866
and if those if

392
00:12:54,866 –> 00:12:56,800
for those of you who are taking your first sip of this

393
00:12:56,800 –> 00:12:58,533
and starting out with deep cut with us

394
00:12:58,533 –> 00:13:01,066
you know if you’re not super familiar with cider

395
00:13:01,066 –> 00:13:03,766
or you’ve only had kind of more of the mass made ciders

396
00:13:04,100 –> 00:13:06,233
this is probably feeling pretty different

397
00:13:06,233 –> 00:13:07,733
this is probably feeling a little

398
00:13:07,733 –> 00:13:08,800
ain’t no Martinelli

399
00:13:08,800 –> 00:13:10,300
yeah yeah for sure

400
00:13:10,300 –> 00:13:10,900
and you know

401
00:13:10,900 –> 00:13:12,666
time and place for all of those things

402
00:13:12,666 –> 00:13:14,000
but like this

403
00:13:14,233 –> 00:13:15,600
this is nuanced

404
00:13:15,600 –> 00:13:17,833
and I really just love this

405
00:13:17,833 –> 00:13:19,933
and you just touched on Jay’s other question there

406
00:13:19,933 –> 00:13:20,833
which is you know

407
00:13:20,833 –> 00:13:22,233
wine can often be barrel aged

408
00:13:22,233 –> 00:13:23,300
they make barrel aged cider

409
00:13:23,300 –> 00:13:25,033
and the answer is absolutely

410
00:13:25,033 –> 00:13:26,200
they make barrel aged ciders

411
00:13:26,200 –> 00:13:27,233
and they are

412
00:13:27,233 –> 00:13:28,100
they are pretty fun

413
00:13:28,100 –> 00:13:28,800
barrel aged ciders

414
00:13:28,800 –> 00:13:31,666
and also this last one you’ll see later is a hop cider

415
00:13:31,666 –> 00:13:32,833
right and so

416
00:13:32,866 –> 00:13:34,133
and there’s fruited ciders

417
00:13:34,133 –> 00:13:35,433
which will get some examples of

418
00:13:35,433 –> 00:13:36,433
so there are a lot of

419
00:13:36,433 –> 00:13:41,033
a lot of trends that you’re seeing in beer and wine um

420
00:13:41,100 –> 00:13:43,066
you can find those examples

421
00:13:43,066 –> 00:13:44,466
in cider nowadays as well

422
00:13:44,466 –> 00:13:47,466
and I think that’s one of the cool things that we are

423
00:13:47,466 –> 00:13:49,200
on the cusp of here in this country

424
00:13:49,200 –> 00:13:51,433
is developing and understanding

425
00:13:52,666 –> 00:13:55,433
both in the legal sense for the federal government

426
00:13:55,866 –> 00:13:57,600
but also with consumers

427
00:13:57,600 –> 00:14:02,500
so that there’s a clarity when you go to buy cider

428
00:14:02,633 –> 00:14:03,800
because you know

429
00:14:03,800 –> 00:14:04,600
historically

430
00:14:04,666 –> 00:14:06,400
and I think that at the outset

431
00:14:06,400 –> 00:14:08,900
when we started making cider or

432
00:14:09,466 –> 00:14:13,166
restarted making cider here in this country um

433
00:14:13,233 –> 00:14:16,333
there is an effort to kind of replicate and duplicate

434
00:14:16,733 –> 00:14:18,700
traditional styles of cider making in France

435
00:14:18,700 –> 00:14:21,066
and in England and in Spain

436
00:14:21,066 –> 00:14:24,500
yeah and there

437
00:14:24,666 –> 00:14:27,533
that’s just the way cider is made

438
00:14:27,800 –> 00:14:29,700
and here we’re

439
00:14:29,700 –> 00:14:31,700
needing to figure out a way to convey that

440
00:14:31,700 –> 00:14:34,566
because people that aren’t from Asturias

441
00:14:35,033 –> 00:14:37,933
don’t understand that this is an Australian cider

442
00:14:37,933 –> 00:14:39,133
and that doesn’t make sense to them

443
00:14:39,133 –> 00:14:40,633
so figuring out a common

444
00:14:40,633 –> 00:14:42,733
shared language so that it can be conveyed

445
00:14:42,733 –> 00:14:45,733
and then they can pick up a camp cider and

446
00:14:45,866 –> 00:14:46,733
have some confidence

447
00:14:46,733 –> 00:14:48,933
and recognition of what they can expect to give

448
00:14:48,933 –> 00:14:52,400
I mean even the usage of the word dry and cider is not

449
00:14:52,400 –> 00:14:54,533
or is not regulated right

450
00:14:54,533 –> 00:14:56,566
and so there is a lot of confusion where

451
00:14:56,633 –> 00:14:58,600
makers will put dry cider on there

452
00:14:58,600 –> 00:14:59,600
because they know that

453
00:14:59,600 –> 00:15:01,833
a lot of people are now looking for dry ciders

454
00:15:02,066 –> 00:15:02,700
but it’s not dry

455
00:15:02,700 –> 00:15:03,666
it’s pretty sweet

456
00:15:03,666 –> 00:15:04,833
and then you’re disappointed

457
00:15:04,900 –> 00:15:06,266
and then you don’t know what’s going on there

458
00:15:06,266 –> 00:15:06,866
and you think

459
00:15:06,866 –> 00:15:08,066
that’s what a dry cider is

460
00:15:08,066 –> 00:15:09,733
and then you give up on cider all together

461
00:15:09,733 –> 00:15:11,033
and the same thing goes with wine

462
00:15:11,033 –> 00:15:11,533
too you know

463
00:15:11,533 –> 00:15:12,600
a lot of people

464
00:15:14,533 –> 00:15:18,800
request and believe that they like dry wine

465
00:15:19,733 –> 00:15:22,733
but there’s this kind of crossover where

466
00:15:22,733 –> 00:15:25,566
they actually want wine that

467
00:15:26,100 –> 00:15:27,666
doesn’t have a lot of tannins

468
00:15:27,666 –> 00:15:29,200
or does have a lot of tannins

469
00:15:29,200 –> 00:15:32,266
as opposed to does have sugar residually or doesn’t

470
00:15:32,266 –> 00:15:34,266
yeah terms are used kind of interchange right

471
00:15:34,266 –> 00:15:34,900
or misused yeah

472
00:15:34,900 –> 00:15:37,133
they’re not codified yeah

473
00:15:37,266 –> 00:15:39,366
Jill’s asking a great question um

474
00:15:39,666 –> 00:15:42,133
Riley take us into the production of cider a little bit

475
00:15:42,133 –> 00:15:44,266
help everyone understand how cider is

476
00:15:44,266 –> 00:15:46,700
is made and how long that kinda takes

477
00:15:46,800 –> 00:15:52,500
sure um so the short answer is it depends

478
00:15:52,500 –> 00:15:57,800
um typically a fermentation is finished

479
00:15:57,800 –> 00:16:01,000
so if we’re just taking a standard cider press

480
00:16:01,000 –> 00:16:04,033
it start a fermentation um

481
00:16:04,933 –> 00:16:08,533
it depends on if we wanna use native yeast

482
00:16:08,533 –> 00:16:10,200
or if we wanna pitch yeast

483
00:16:10,400 –> 00:16:12,566
so that’s our first deciding factor

484
00:16:12,833 –> 00:16:15,700
so native yeast is what exists on the fruit

485
00:16:15,700 –> 00:16:17,300
yeast is everywhere in the air

486
00:16:17,300 –> 00:16:18,100
on our skin

487
00:16:18,100 –> 00:16:19,900
on the fruit um

488
00:16:19,900 –> 00:16:24,700
and if you press that fresh without washing it off

489
00:16:25,000 –> 00:16:28,100
then that fruit will start to ferment

490
00:16:28,200 –> 00:16:30,533
once it all kind of melts together

491
00:16:30,533 –> 00:16:33,333
once it starts really like getting together

492
00:16:33,333 –> 00:16:35,133
think if you just left sort of

493
00:16:35,600 –> 00:16:37,833
a jar of apple sauce on your counter

494
00:16:37,833 –> 00:16:40,200
it would probably start to get kind of stinky

495
00:16:40,200 –> 00:16:41,233
and honestly

496
00:16:41,533 –> 00:16:43,866
that’s partially how some of you know

497
00:16:43,866 –> 00:16:47,266
wine spider kind of got invented originally

498
00:16:47,266 –> 00:16:48,233
right exactly

499
00:16:50,833 –> 00:16:52,633
what’s happening out there and yeah

500
00:16:52,633 –> 00:16:54,000
and so are you to try this

501
00:16:54,000 –> 00:16:56,533
yeah yeah I know

502
00:16:56,533 –> 00:16:59,400
I always joke that a native yeast

503
00:16:59,466 –> 00:17:01,633
I like to think of it is air war

504
00:17:01,633 –> 00:17:03,300
like so we all hear about air war

505
00:17:03,300 –> 00:17:05,933
where it’s like a taste of place and the soil

506
00:17:06,033 –> 00:17:06,500
and I’m like

507
00:17:06,500 –> 00:17:07,500
the yeast is like

508
00:17:07,500 –> 00:17:08,266
it’s in the air

509
00:17:08,266 –> 00:17:11,933
and this is what like is going on in this place

510
00:17:12,466 –> 00:17:14,133
replicate that somewhere else

511
00:17:14,533 –> 00:17:15,600
and so you know

512
00:17:15,600 –> 00:17:17,733
it’s really giving you a more of a taste of place

513
00:17:17,733 –> 00:17:19,933
if you’re using that native east yes

514
00:17:20,233 –> 00:17:23,900
and part of that is that it takes longer to ferment

515
00:17:24,433 –> 00:17:27,433
um and that longer fermentation

516
00:17:27,700 –> 00:17:31,700
gets a lot more aromatics out of the fermentation

517
00:17:31,900 –> 00:17:34,500
so the that long fermentation

518
00:17:34,500 –> 00:17:36,400
makes the yeast really stressed out

519
00:17:36,400 –> 00:17:37,466
it makes the yeast

520
00:17:37,466 –> 00:17:39,933
think that it’s not going to get what it needs

521
00:17:39,933 –> 00:17:43,200
so it starts working really hard for its nutrition

522
00:17:43,200 –> 00:17:44,166
from the sugar

523
00:17:44,233 –> 00:17:47,433
um and that’s how we get really neat

524
00:17:47,433 –> 00:17:49,666
like secondary and

525
00:17:49,666 –> 00:17:52,933
and almost tertiary notes like this tastes like apples

526
00:17:52,933 –> 00:17:57,133
but other things is largely due to long

527
00:17:57,133 –> 00:17:58,500
cold fermentation

528
00:17:58,900 –> 00:18:01,300
now we also

529
00:18:01,300 –> 00:18:02,333
in some of our cans

530
00:18:02,333 –> 00:18:03,400
we will pitch east

531
00:18:03,400 –> 00:18:05,333
which is a selected um

532
00:18:05,333 –> 00:18:09,000
white wine East E40 and uh

533
00:18:09,000 –> 00:18:12,033
that kicks off the fermentation a little faster

534
00:18:12,033 –> 00:18:13,700
so that we might

535
00:18:13,800 –> 00:18:15,933
we might make a better

536
00:18:16,200 –> 00:18:18,700
condition for the yeast to ferment happily

537
00:18:18,866 –> 00:18:20,800
so that means we might

538
00:18:20,800 –> 00:18:22,200
temperature control the tank so the

539
00:18:22,200 –> 00:18:23,400
it’s a little warmer

540
00:18:23,400 –> 00:18:26,366
so the yeast will be really cozy and get going

541
00:18:26,633 –> 00:18:31,433
um and that gives us a little bit more control over uh

542
00:18:31,433 –> 00:18:33,600
over the length of the fermentation

543
00:18:33,600 –> 00:18:34,700
how the yeast reacts

544
00:18:34,700 –> 00:18:35,733
and I’m seeing this question

545
00:18:35,733 –> 00:18:38,033
E40 is just the strain of the yeast

546
00:18:38,033 –> 00:18:39,233
that’s just its name

547
00:18:39,233 –> 00:18:40,833
and if you think of it like when

548
00:18:40,833 –> 00:18:41,800
when wine makers

549
00:18:42,433 –> 00:18:43,733
brewers everyone

550
00:18:43,733 –> 00:18:44,200
like I mean

551
00:18:44,200 –> 00:18:46,700
there’s probably like books of yeast right

552
00:18:46,700 –> 00:18:47,500
like that oh

553
00:18:47,666 –> 00:18:49,500
like there’s like a catalogue yeah

554
00:18:49,500 –> 00:18:50,900
there’s like a catalogue you can get

555
00:18:50,900 –> 00:18:52,233
that’s just like what

556
00:18:52,233 –> 00:18:54,066
and they all have different flavor profiles

557
00:18:54,066 –> 00:18:54,600
they all have different

558
00:18:54,600 –> 00:18:55,233
you know like

559
00:18:55,233 –> 00:18:56,533
and so especially in beer

560
00:18:56,533 –> 00:18:58,133
you can really choose different I mean

561
00:18:58,133 –> 00:18:59,066
I guess in anything

562
00:18:59,066 –> 00:19:00,100
different yeast to be like

563
00:19:00,100 –> 00:19:01,433
I wanna bring out

564
00:19:01,466 –> 00:19:03,100
you know that kind of more passion fruit

565
00:19:03,100 –> 00:19:04,700
tropical flavor component

566
00:19:04,700 –> 00:19:06,700
this yeast will help me do that

567
00:19:06,700 –> 00:19:07,800
and so it really

568
00:19:07,800 –> 00:19:08,500
it’s a science

569
00:19:08,500 –> 00:19:09,266
and it is a science

570
00:19:09,266 –> 00:19:10,700
and the craziest thing is that

571
00:19:10,700 –> 00:19:13,166
our knowledge of this science is

572
00:19:13,400 –> 00:19:15,500
frankly kind of rudimentary

573
00:19:15,533 –> 00:19:19,433
like the fact that you might pitch with E40 yeast

574
00:19:19,500 –> 00:19:21,433
in evaluating the resulting

575
00:19:21,433 –> 00:19:23,366
product at the end of fermentation

576
00:19:23,400 –> 00:19:26,666
what type of east actually completed

577
00:19:26,666 –> 00:19:27,733
most of it some of it

578
00:19:27,733 –> 00:19:31,800
all of it might not be E40 like that

579
00:19:32,033 –> 00:19:32,700
that’s plausible

580
00:19:32,700 –> 00:19:33,633
that might start it

581
00:19:33,633 –> 00:19:35,200
but then there’s yeah

582
00:19:35,200 –> 00:19:37,000
in the air that could take over

583
00:19:37,000 –> 00:19:39,366
if there are more robust strain

584
00:19:39,400 –> 00:19:41,833
or if the conditions are appropriate

585
00:19:41,933 –> 00:19:43,600
yeah yeah yeah

586
00:19:44,533 –> 00:19:46,433
okay so we choose our yeast

587
00:19:46,533 –> 00:19:49,566
whether it’s native so um

588
00:19:50,533 –> 00:19:52,266
typically with a native yeast

589
00:19:52,266 –> 00:19:53,700
it’s done when it’s done

590
00:19:54,100 –> 00:19:55,933
four weeks to 12 weeks

591
00:19:55,933 –> 00:19:57,433
with a pitched yeast

592
00:19:57,433 –> 00:19:59,200
which is what we were just talking about

593
00:19:59,200 –> 00:20:00,233
it’s about two weeks

594
00:20:00,233 –> 00:20:02,533
five days to two weeks okay

595
00:20:02,533 –> 00:20:04,900
um and that’s when it’s too dry we

596
00:20:04,900 –> 00:20:07,533
we ferment most of our ciders to dry

597
00:20:07,533 –> 00:20:09,933
with obviously the exception of

598
00:20:09,933 –> 00:20:11,600
the ice ciders um

599
00:20:11,633 –> 00:20:13,233
and when they are not fermented to dry

600
00:20:13,233 –> 00:20:14,133
they’re typically

601
00:20:14,500 –> 00:20:16,000
cold crashed

602
00:20:16,533 –> 00:20:18,866
before all of the yeast has died

603
00:20:18,866 –> 00:20:20,900
so we kill the yeast um

604
00:20:20,900 –> 00:20:22,700
by dropping the temperature

605
00:20:22,700 –> 00:20:24,633
so the yeast can’t survive that way

606
00:20:26,033 –> 00:20:27,700
um one of the things that you mentioned

607
00:20:27,700 –> 00:20:29,166
earlier with respect to

608
00:20:29,400 –> 00:20:30,733
you know native use fermentation

609
00:20:30,733 –> 00:20:33,700
that I think is maybe helpful in illuminating to some

610
00:20:34,100 –> 00:20:36,866
with respect to the aromatics that you were describing

611
00:20:36,866 –> 00:20:39,366
that that allows um

612
00:20:39,533 –> 00:20:42,166
my understanding with respect to this is that

613
00:20:42,300 –> 00:20:45,533
when you have a commercial strain of yeast

614
00:20:45,533 –> 00:20:47,666
like E40 or any others

615
00:20:47,666 –> 00:20:50,733
but there are some that are intentionally designed for

616
00:20:50,733 –> 00:20:52,333
like for chance

617
00:20:52,333 –> 00:20:54,666
a champagne site or a champagne yeast

618
00:20:54,666 –> 00:20:56,133
that is intentionally designed

619
00:20:56,133 –> 00:21:00,433
it is cultivated to ferment hop and fast

620
00:21:01,133 –> 00:21:04,833
and the speed at which you ferment generally

621
00:21:05,066 –> 00:21:08,333
is based on the heat and the temperature

622
00:21:08,333 –> 00:21:09,266
which you ferment

623
00:21:09,266 –> 00:21:12,333
because one of the byproducts of fermentation is heat

624
00:21:12,333 –> 00:21:15,000
and then it compounds that so

625
00:21:15,000 –> 00:21:18,100
the fermentation goes faster and faster and faster

626
00:21:18,466 –> 00:21:21,400
and what that does is it kind of cooks out

627
00:21:21,466 –> 00:21:23,066
some of those more delicate

628
00:21:23,066 –> 00:21:26,800
nuanced aromas

629
00:21:26,800 –> 00:21:27,833
so cooking like

630
00:21:27,833 –> 00:21:30,200
fermenting slow and cold

631
00:21:30,300 –> 00:21:32,400
keeps and retains a lot of those

632
00:21:34,400 –> 00:21:37,033
we have another question um from Susan

633
00:21:37,133 –> 00:21:40,233
the difference between cider and Calvados hmm

634
00:21:40,233 –> 00:21:45,700
that’s a good question um do you wanna go sure go

635
00:21:47,066 –> 00:21:51,200
uh cider is to Calvados as wine is to brandy

636
00:21:52,100 –> 00:21:53,600
collaborate

637
00:21:53,600 –> 00:21:56,400
it’s the distal it that is made from

638
00:21:56,633 –> 00:21:57,833
uh you know

639
00:21:57,833 –> 00:22:04,133
you ferment apples into cider and then you distill it

640
00:22:04,500 –> 00:22:06,200
and then specifically

641
00:22:06,233 –> 00:22:07,233
then it’s apple brandy

642
00:22:07,233 –> 00:22:11,333
but if it’s made in the Calvatos region of France

643
00:22:11,500 –> 00:22:14,000
then it can be called calvatos uh

644
00:22:14,000 –> 00:22:18,000
same way you can ferment grapes into wine

645
00:22:18,133 –> 00:22:21,700
and then distill it and make brandy

646
00:22:21,700 –> 00:22:22,633
regular brandy

647
00:22:22,633 –> 00:22:26,133
or if you do it in like cognac or armeniac

648
00:22:26,333 –> 00:22:27,800
you can then call it armeniac

649
00:22:28,133 –> 00:22:32,200
I guess it’s also the way beer is to whiskey right

650
00:22:32,200 –> 00:22:33,666
you take grains and you can make them

651
00:22:33,666 –> 00:22:35,866
and then you distill beer and make that whiskey

652
00:22:35,866 –> 00:22:37,800
yep so yeah

653
00:22:38,066 –> 00:22:39,000
great question

654
00:22:39,633 –> 00:22:42,333
what makes apples not good for cider

655
00:22:43,000 –> 00:22:44,300
interesting question

656
00:22:44,333 –> 00:22:45,966
I might throw up this

657
00:22:46,100 –> 00:22:47,933
I might I have a visual here Riley

658
00:22:47,933 –> 00:22:49,133
you guys can start answering this

659
00:22:49,133 –> 00:22:51,900
but I have a visual that we’ve created a while ago of

660
00:22:52,633 –> 00:22:55,766
the the four quadrants of like different um

661
00:22:56,200 –> 00:22:57,933
one of the ways that you’ve tried to understand

662
00:22:57,933 –> 00:23:00,133
being able to talk about cider in a way that

663
00:23:00,233 –> 00:23:02,900
can be codified and understood

664
00:23:03,400 –> 00:23:06,866
no I don’t know about all that but yeah

665
00:23:06,866 –> 00:23:08,000
but so what

666
00:23:08,000 –> 00:23:08,833
let’s talk about the apple

667
00:23:08,833 –> 00:23:09,433
well actually let’s

668
00:23:09,433 –> 00:23:10,933
let’s jump into our second site first

669
00:23:10,933 –> 00:23:13,800
because I want to make sure we keep tasting along here

670
00:23:13,800 –> 00:23:15,700
here let’s pour these together in one glass

671
00:23:16,200 –> 00:23:17,700
so we can keep sipping on that

672
00:23:17,833 –> 00:23:21,833
um so I uh I love this question

673
00:23:21,833 –> 00:23:22,800
it’s excellent

674
00:23:22,866 –> 00:23:28,133
um I would say any apple is qualified for cider

675
00:23:28,933 –> 00:23:31,500
um a lot of eating apples

676
00:23:31,500 –> 00:23:36,133
a lot of grocery store apples are mostly uh

677
00:23:36,133 –> 00:23:38,000
bread for water content

678
00:23:38,000 –> 00:23:40,333
the the modern palette really just wants a snap

679
00:23:40,333 –> 00:23:42,833
when you bite into the apple um

680
00:23:43,400 –> 00:23:48,400
and the so it’s selected for what we like to eat

681
00:23:48,400 –> 00:23:51,300
so that’s sort of what we commonly think of as an apple

682
00:23:52,000 –> 00:23:56,433
there are so many apple varieties

683
00:23:56,433 –> 00:23:58,200
apples are more chromosomally

684
00:23:58,200 –> 00:24:01,400
diverse than human beings crazy

685
00:24:01,433 –> 00:24:04,300
and if thousand on the planet or something like that

686
00:24:04,500 –> 00:24:08,833
yes at least if an apple falls from a tree

687
00:24:08,866 –> 00:24:11,833
and that apple goes to seed

688
00:24:12,000 –> 00:24:13,266
the tree that grows in

689
00:24:13,266 –> 00:24:16,133
the fruit that’s produced will not be identical

690
00:24:16,333 –> 00:24:19,100
it’ll be a descendant of that apple

691
00:24:19,266 –> 00:24:21,100
so that’s just sort of an aside

692
00:24:21,100 –> 00:24:22,700
that’s just sort of a fun fact

693
00:24:22,733 –> 00:24:25,300
um but what makes apples really good for cider

694
00:24:25,300 –> 00:24:27,933
is what makes grapes really good for wine

695
00:24:28,200 –> 00:24:29,933
acid and tanning

696
00:24:29,933 –> 00:24:31,533
so sugar and tanning

697
00:24:31,700 –> 00:24:33,533
um you want really ripe

698
00:24:33,533 –> 00:24:34,766
beautiful fruits

699
00:24:35,100 –> 00:24:37,333
um so good quality fruit

700
00:24:37,333 –> 00:24:39,200
is you know

701
00:24:39,666 –> 00:24:42,366
raw material makes for a really great

702
00:24:42,500 –> 00:24:43,900
cider at the back end

703
00:24:44,533 –> 00:24:47,266
but concentration of those flavors is really important

704
00:24:47,266 –> 00:24:48,800
so a lot of the apples

705
00:24:48,800 –> 00:24:49,900
and this is a great visual

706
00:24:49,900 –> 00:24:51,500
thank you so much

707
00:24:53,233 –> 00:24:55,600
uh like the bitter sharps and the bitter sweets

708
00:24:55,600 –> 00:24:59,533
they typically don’t taste very good to eat they

709
00:24:59,533 –> 00:25:02,033
it could be like biting into a cotton ball um

710
00:25:02,033 –> 00:25:03,833
that those flavors and those tannins

711
00:25:03,833 –> 00:25:07,133
or acid is so concentrated um

712
00:25:07,200 –> 00:25:10,966
that it really needs the

713
00:25:11,333 –> 00:25:14,600
the the length and the scientific aspect

714
00:25:14,600 –> 00:25:17,266
the chemistry of fermentation to bring out

715
00:25:17,266 –> 00:25:19,133
what it’s destiny is for

716
00:25:19,133 –> 00:25:20,500
so there’s a history

717
00:25:20,500 –> 00:25:21,133
um you know

718
00:25:21,133 –> 00:25:24,933
in colonial earth apple history

719
00:25:25,533 –> 00:25:28,566
uh that is um

720
00:25:29,033 –> 00:25:30,733
sort of um like

721
00:25:30,733 –> 00:25:32,400
like everyone was saying

722
00:25:32,400 –> 00:25:35,000
descendant from English and French cider apples

723
00:25:35,300 –> 00:25:40,133
those are definitely more bread for fermentation

724
00:25:40,133 –> 00:25:44,300
so they will be really nuance when you ferment them

725
00:25:44,600 –> 00:25:47,533
and they store pretty well

726
00:25:47,533 –> 00:25:48,533
so that’s another

727
00:25:48,533 –> 00:25:51,600
aspect is that if they have good structure

728
00:25:51,600 –> 00:25:52,833
they tend to ferment well

729
00:25:52,833 –> 00:25:54,600
and they can ripen really well

730
00:25:55,200 –> 00:25:57,433
and so the opposite of that is a lot of water

731
00:25:57,433 –> 00:26:01,033
so structure of membrane versus structure

732
00:26:01,033 –> 00:26:03,133
that sort of holds a lot of water

733
00:26:04,633 –> 00:26:05,333
that’s gonna

734
00:26:05,333 –> 00:26:08,300
that’s gonna be a sort of lighter

735
00:26:08,300 –> 00:26:09,933
less flavorful fermentation

736
00:26:09,933 –> 00:26:11,233
if that makes sense

737
00:26:12,233 –> 00:26:13,666
yeah absolutely

738
00:26:13,666 –> 00:26:15,600
and something that’s kind of fun

739
00:26:15,600 –> 00:26:16,900
for all of you to imagine

740
00:26:16,900 –> 00:26:20,600
if you’ve ever eaten a crab apple off of a tree

741
00:26:20,833 –> 00:26:22,033
something that isn’t cultivated

742
00:26:22,033 –> 00:26:23,700
you probably haven’t done it twice

743
00:26:24,800 –> 00:26:27,433
cultivated for eating um

744
00:26:27,433 –> 00:26:29,600
when those apples are ripe

745
00:26:29,600 –> 00:26:31,933
they have the same sugar content

746
00:26:32,200 –> 00:26:34,833
as a gala apple or a Fiji apple

747
00:26:35,266 –> 00:26:36,100
the thing is

748
00:26:36,100 –> 00:26:39,733
is that those crab apples just have a lot of acid

749
00:26:39,733 –> 00:26:42,700
and a lot of tannins that kind of

750
00:26:42,700 –> 00:26:45,733
mask the sweetness that might otherwise be there

751
00:26:46,200 –> 00:26:47,466
so fun thing to keep in mind

752
00:26:47,466 –> 00:26:48,966
next time you have a crab apple

753
00:26:49,700 –> 00:26:52,133
yeah and it really you know

754
00:26:53,066 –> 00:26:56,733
I feel like most apples that make great cider

755
00:26:56,733 –> 00:26:58,733
are not apples you want to eat

756
00:26:59,100 –> 00:26:59,700
you know yeah

757
00:26:59,700 –> 00:27:01,300
like that’s kind of the way it goes

758
00:27:01,300 –> 00:27:03,633
and so you when you’re thinking of apples

759
00:27:03,633 –> 00:27:05,000
and you’re thinking of

760
00:27:05,000 –> 00:27:07,433
you know the apples you have in the grocery store

761
00:27:07,700 –> 00:27:09,466
that is not primarily what

762
00:27:09,466 –> 00:27:10,866
and that’s part of you know

763
00:27:10,866 –> 00:27:12,100
I know this is hoply debated

764
00:27:12,100 –> 00:27:13,600
but that’s partly what

765
00:27:13,833 –> 00:27:15,800
you know kind of stifled

766
00:27:15,900 –> 00:27:18,466
the cider industry in our country for a very long time

767
00:27:18,466 –> 00:27:19,300
with prohibition

768
00:27:19,300 –> 00:27:19,866
right I mean

769
00:27:19,866 –> 00:27:22,233
I know this is a little hoply debated that like

770
00:27:22,233 –> 00:27:23,400
is this really the reason

771
00:27:23,400 –> 00:27:25,333
but what I’ve heard and you

772
00:27:25,333 –> 00:27:26,633
we can all debate this a little bit

773
00:27:26,633 –> 00:27:27,966
is you know

774
00:27:28,066 –> 00:27:30,566
because the apples that are good for making cider

775
00:27:30,600 –> 00:27:32,066
really aren’t good for a lot else

776
00:27:32,066 –> 00:27:33,533
like even if you bake them

777
00:27:33,533 –> 00:27:34,433
even if you like

778
00:27:34,433 –> 00:27:34,900
you can’t like

779
00:27:34,900 –> 00:27:36,466
you can’t make them into a good pie

780
00:27:36,466 –> 00:27:37,433
you can’t make that

781
00:27:37,433 –> 00:27:39,433
so when prohibition hit and like

782
00:27:39,433 –> 00:27:40,000
you had all

783
00:27:40,000 –> 00:27:42,000
these apple trees that they were making cider with

784
00:27:42,000 –> 00:27:44,733
because we’ve been making cider in this country forever

785
00:27:44,733 –> 00:27:46,266
like it was one of the earliest

786
00:27:46,266 –> 00:27:47,100
you know oh yeah

787
00:27:47,100 –> 00:27:49,133
it’s what the founding fathers were drinking

788
00:27:49,133 –> 00:27:50,233
absolutely and

789
00:27:50,233 –> 00:27:52,933
and it was partially because it was safer than water

790
00:27:52,933 –> 00:27:56,466
you know it might have only been one or two 3% alcohol

791
00:27:56,466 –> 00:27:58,833
but it was still cider um

792
00:27:58,833 –> 00:28:00,266
and so when prohibition hit

793
00:28:00,266 –> 00:28:01,600
and like you have all these apple trees

794
00:28:01,600 –> 00:28:03,266
and you can’t make any money off of them anymore

795
00:28:03,266 –> 00:28:05,533
cause you can’t make cider anymore

796
00:28:05,633 –> 00:28:07,166
a lot of those heirloom

797
00:28:07,200 –> 00:28:09,600
varieties and varieties that are great for cider

798
00:28:09,600 –> 00:28:10,566
but nothing else

799
00:28:10,800 –> 00:28:12,700
kind of went fallow you know

800
00:28:12,700 –> 00:28:14,033
no one was taking care of them anymore

801
00:28:14,033 –> 00:28:16,400
they got ripped up to replant other things right

802
00:28:16,400 –> 00:28:18,800
they needed to use their farm for something productive

803
00:28:18,933 –> 00:28:22,133
and so then when prohibition ended you know

804
00:28:22,133 –> 00:28:24,400
cider kind of just didn’t come back for a while

805
00:28:24,400 –> 00:28:26,066
and when it did start to

806
00:28:26,066 –> 00:28:27,333
a lot of the apple

807
00:28:27,333 –> 00:28:29,600
trees that were still around in our country

808
00:28:29,700 –> 00:28:31,400
or not necessarily the cider

809
00:28:31,400 –> 00:28:32,866
the apples that you wanna make cider with

810
00:28:32,866 –> 00:28:34,933
and so some of that early cider

811
00:28:35,300 –> 00:28:37,066
was very sweet and you know

812
00:28:37,066 –> 00:28:39,133
made for the American palette in a different way

813
00:28:39,133 –> 00:28:40,866
and now there

814
00:28:40,866 –> 00:28:42,033
there’s a lot of cider makers

815
00:28:42,033 –> 00:28:44,933
were really investing a lot of time and energy into

816
00:28:45,066 –> 00:28:46,666
replanting these heirloom varieties

817
00:28:46,666 –> 00:28:48,266
finding these heirloom varieties

818
00:28:48,266 –> 00:28:49,800
and bringing that culture back

819
00:28:49,800 –> 00:28:50,266
which is why

820
00:28:50,266 –> 00:28:52,833
we’re getting such great cider now yeah

821
00:28:52,833 –> 00:28:53,333
Tom thank you

822
00:28:53,333 –> 00:28:54,700
Suzanne for naming it the name

823
00:28:54,700 –> 00:28:55,666
the sort of

824
00:28:55,666 –> 00:28:57,100
name that we use for cider

825
00:28:57,100 –> 00:28:58,866
specific apples is heirloom apples

826
00:28:58,866 –> 00:29:00,533
that’s pretty industry standard

827
00:29:01,233 –> 00:29:02,600
yeah Tom uh

828
00:29:03,000 –> 00:29:05,366
no not no uh

829
00:29:05,400 –> 00:29:08,300
the the apples that might be good in your pie are

830
00:29:08,300 –> 00:29:10,800
probably gonna make a better cider than Red

831
00:29:10,800 –> 00:29:12,166
Delicious yeah

832
00:29:12,733 –> 00:29:14,666
there’s an apple that grows um

833
00:29:14,666 –> 00:29:17,100
it’s native to New York State

834
00:29:17,100 –> 00:29:19,500
that’s called Northern Spy um

835
00:29:19,500 –> 00:29:23,600
and it is arguably the best apple for pies

836
00:29:23,600 –> 00:29:24,633
the the saying is

837
00:29:24,633 –> 00:29:26,100
spies for pies uh

838
00:29:26,100 –> 00:29:28,433
it also makes an incredible

839
00:29:28,433 –> 00:29:31,033
single variety cider um

840
00:29:31,033 –> 00:29:33,466
I think also something to note about what makes apples

841
00:29:33,466 –> 00:29:36,366
good for cider is that um

842
00:29:36,633 –> 00:29:38,566
because they’re so diverse

843
00:29:38,833 –> 00:29:39,666
it’s common

844
00:29:39,666 –> 00:29:42,700
that will blend different varieties of apples to really

845
00:29:42,700 –> 00:29:47,100
get the palette that we’re trying to achieve um

846
00:29:47,100 –> 00:29:48,933
I like to say apples like their friends

847
00:29:48,933 –> 00:29:51,600
there’s very few apple varieties that have

848
00:29:51,600 –> 00:29:53,533
the right balance of acid tannin and

849
00:29:53,533 –> 00:29:55,533
and sweetness to ferment

850
00:29:55,533 –> 00:29:57,933
nicely in a palatable way um

851
00:29:57,933 –> 00:30:01,266
but if you are deliberate about how these flavors

852
00:30:01,266 –> 00:30:03,100
differ and compliment each other

853
00:30:03,466 –> 00:30:05,033
and usually it’s

854
00:30:05,033 –> 00:30:06,266
it’s kind of uh

855
00:30:06,266 –> 00:30:07,633
1 to 1 if they

856
00:30:07,633 –> 00:30:09,100
if the flavors in the mouth feel

857
00:30:09,100 –> 00:30:09,833
kind of compliment

858
00:30:09,833 –> 00:30:11,300
each other when they’re raw

859
00:30:11,533 –> 00:30:13,333
they’ll continue to do that when they ferment

860
00:30:13,333 –> 00:30:15,533
as well yeah yeah

861
00:30:15,533 –> 00:30:16,400
that’s an interesting thing

862
00:30:16,400 –> 00:30:17,533
I think about cider

863
00:30:17,700 –> 00:30:21,300
and a kind of a contrast to what you see in wine

864
00:30:21,733 –> 00:30:23,200
there’s numerous

865
00:30:23,200 –> 00:30:24,600
and arguably

866
00:30:24,600 –> 00:30:26,000
like most wine in

867
00:30:26,000 –> 00:30:27,366
that you find in the world

868
00:30:27,433 –> 00:30:29,700
is varietal

869
00:30:29,700 –> 00:30:30,900
like that is

870
00:30:30,900 –> 00:30:32,500
what the expression is

871
00:30:32,500 –> 00:30:33,066
is an expression

872
00:30:33,066 –> 00:30:34,633
of that single

873
00:30:34,633 –> 00:30:35,900
type of grape you know

874
00:30:35,900 –> 00:30:36,800
maybe there’s

875
00:30:36,833 –> 00:30:39,500
2 or 3% of this or that um

876
00:30:39,500 –> 00:30:42,200
but comparatively it’s

877
00:30:42,866 –> 00:30:44,000
highly uncommon

878
00:30:44,000 –> 00:30:45,933
with the exception of maybe

879
00:30:45,933 –> 00:30:48,566
a handful of apple varietals

880
00:30:48,600 –> 00:30:49,300
that you see

881
00:30:49,300 –> 00:30:50,633
varietal cider

882
00:30:52,133 –> 00:30:53,833
Northern Spy being one of them

883
00:30:53,833 –> 00:30:55,200
I feel like I’ve seen a dab in it

884
00:30:55,200 –> 00:30:55,800
Kingston Black

885
00:30:55,800 –> 00:30:56,933
Kingston Black yeah

886
00:30:56,933 –> 00:30:57,600
it’s lovely

887
00:30:57,600 –> 00:30:58,000
golden dress

888
00:30:58,000 –> 00:30:59,133
it is lovely

889
00:30:59,133 –> 00:31:00,266
yeah yeah yeah

890
00:31:00,266 –> 00:31:01,133
overall there’s

891
00:31:01,133 –> 00:31:03,033
would you say like a half a dozen

892
00:31:03,033 –> 00:31:05,700
grab and Steen is a big one in Sonoma and Jonathan

893
00:31:05,700 –> 00:31:07,800
yeah hey Riley

894
00:31:07,800 –> 00:31:09,033
can you tell us about this Troc Star

895
00:31:09,033 –> 00:31:11,100
cause I gotta tell you like putting my nose in it

896
00:31:11,100 –> 00:31:13,933
I love to I was immediately and you know

897
00:31:13,933 –> 00:31:15,700
I know what’s going on here

898
00:31:15,700 –> 00:31:16,466
but still I was like

899
00:31:16,466 –> 00:31:20,100
oh this smells like an aged Riesling like this is

900
00:31:20,466 –> 00:31:22,733
it really has that beautiful smell to it

901
00:31:22,733 –> 00:31:24,333
and the color is just gorgeous

902
00:31:24,333 –> 00:31:26,066
and it’s very different than our first one

903
00:31:26,066 –> 00:31:28,000
so tell us a little bit about what’s going on here

904
00:31:28,033 –> 00:31:30,666
yeah so the Troc Star is uh

905
00:31:30,666 –> 00:31:36,000
cider that is fermented on pressed Riesling grape skins

906
00:31:36,533 –> 00:31:40,066
so um Eden Ciders just this past year

907
00:31:40,066 –> 00:31:43,933
2023 merged with a Vermont winery um

908
00:31:43,933 –> 00:31:45,233
called Shelbourne Vineyards

909
00:31:45,733 –> 00:31:47,900
they are a very

910
00:31:48,200 –> 00:31:52,433
you know pioneer in cold climate wine making um

911
00:31:52,633 –> 00:31:56,133
and as we sort of addressed right at the outset

912
00:31:56,200 –> 00:31:57,433
cider and wine are

913
00:31:57,433 –> 00:31:59,766
they just go hand in hand with the process

914
00:32:00,133 –> 00:32:02,700
and we find that regionally

915
00:32:03,466 –> 00:32:04,000
cold climate

916
00:32:04,000 –> 00:32:06,600
wines and ciders really play nicely together

917
00:32:06,733 –> 00:32:11,566
but this specific cider was sort of just a fun whim

918
00:32:11,900 –> 00:32:15,800
uh why not so we have this cold uh

919
00:32:15,800 –> 00:32:16,933
cold climate Riesling

920
00:32:16,933 –> 00:32:18,200
it’s the only uh

921
00:32:18,200 –> 00:32:20,100
Riesling planting in Vermont

922
00:32:20,500 –> 00:32:23,800
uh our friends took the grapes pressed it

923
00:32:23,800 –> 00:32:26,333
made a beautiful Riesling wine

924
00:32:26,466 –> 00:32:29,866
and then they gave us their skins

925
00:32:29,866 –> 00:32:31,833
it was pretty much their their

926
00:32:31,933 –> 00:32:33,333
they would have thrown it away

927
00:32:33,333 –> 00:32:34,800
they would have posted it

928
00:32:35,400 –> 00:32:40,100
so we took those skins and we threw them very

929
00:32:40,266 –> 00:32:41,700
it’s not like very glamorous

930
00:32:41,700 –> 00:32:44,166
we dumped them in a tank of fermenting cider

931
00:32:44,600 –> 00:32:47,500
um it was it was just starting to ferment

932
00:32:47,500 –> 00:32:49,433
so it wasn’t anywhere near dry

933
00:32:49,733 –> 00:32:53,433
so those skins got to play along in the fermentation

934
00:32:53,533 –> 00:32:55,200
and sort of inform

935
00:32:55,400 –> 00:32:58,600
um some of those Riesling yeasts were in there

936
00:32:58,633 –> 00:33:01,000
uh it added a little bit more structure to

937
00:33:01,000 –> 00:33:04,033
the fermentation because of the tanning in those skins

938
00:33:04,533 –> 00:33:07,833
um and we we did cold crash this one

939
00:33:07,833 –> 00:33:09,933
so this has a little bit of residual sweetness

940
00:33:10,100 –> 00:33:12,433
and that is from uh

941
00:33:12,633 –> 00:33:13,866
arrested fermentation

942
00:33:13,866 –> 00:33:17,500
so we stopped the fermentation at about oh

943
00:33:17,500 –> 00:33:21,033
I think it’s about 10 grams per liter of residual sugar

944
00:33:21,533 –> 00:33:26,533
um and uh the name is truck star uh

945
00:33:26,933 –> 00:33:29,500
because Riesling is

946
00:33:29,500 –> 00:33:32,433
is categorized as trocan through cabinet

947
00:33:32,433 –> 00:33:34,366
so trocan is on the dry side

948
00:33:34,500 –> 00:33:35,033
the cabinet

949
00:33:35,033 –> 00:33:36,000
which is sweet

950
00:33:36,733 –> 00:33:40,266
and we kind of wanted this to be a fun

951
00:33:40,266 –> 00:33:44,100
like kind of whimsical cider so

952
00:33:44,700 –> 00:33:46,100
we took a little bit of the tradition

953
00:33:46,100 –> 00:33:51,200
and a little bit of just like playful name so lovely

954
00:33:51,200 –> 00:33:51,700
it’s really

955
00:33:51,700 –> 00:33:54,466
I love the color and the aroma and it’s really

956
00:33:54,466 –> 00:33:55,466
I like that a lot

957
00:33:55,466 –> 00:33:57,833
so the number that you

958
00:33:58,033 –> 00:34:00,800
just mentioned with regard to the sweetness of this

959
00:34:00,900 –> 00:34:02,733
I feel like it helps

960
00:34:04,000 –> 00:34:06,800
people orient to orient themselves

961
00:34:06,900 –> 00:34:09,733
a gram is roughly one packet

962
00:34:09,733 –> 00:34:14,200
of sugar that you might have on the table at your cafe

963
00:34:14,633 –> 00:34:20,033
so if you can imagine 10 of those packets in a liter um

964
00:34:20,600 –> 00:34:21,900
human perception

965
00:34:22,266 –> 00:34:25,533
is roughly around 3 or 4 grams per liter

966
00:34:25,533 –> 00:34:28,233
less than that or right around that

967
00:34:28,833 –> 00:34:30,033
you’re probably not gonna

968
00:34:30,033 –> 00:34:33,033
recognize that there’s any residual sugar um

969
00:34:33,100 –> 00:34:33,933
under 3 or 4

970
00:34:33,933 –> 00:34:35,200
under 3 or 4

971
00:34:35,200 –> 00:34:36,466
depending on the leader okay

972
00:34:36,466 –> 00:34:37,733
yeah depending on yeah

973
00:34:37,733 –> 00:34:39,500
um and then

974
00:34:40,266 –> 00:34:42,966
if you have a can of Coca Cola

975
00:34:43,333 –> 00:34:45,600
in your refrigerator right now

976
00:34:45,833 –> 00:34:49,500
I think that’s 40 grams in a 12 ounce can

977
00:34:49,500 –> 00:34:54,633
which roughly translates to about 90 grams per liter

978
00:34:54,866 –> 00:34:57,700
so this is slightly sweet

979
00:34:57,700 –> 00:35:00,566
and keep in mind that of course there’s a bunch of

980
00:35:00,700 –> 00:35:02,033
acidity in the Coca Cola

981
00:35:02,033 –> 00:35:03,100
because if you missed it before

982
00:35:03,100 –> 00:35:04,633
this is 10 grams per liter

983
00:35:04,633 –> 00:35:06,400
is where this kind of next out at the end

984
00:35:06,400 –> 00:35:08,066
so it might sound like there’s a lot of sugar in there

985
00:35:08,066 –> 00:35:11,133
but it’s very large yeah

986
00:35:11,200 –> 00:35:14,466
and it’s important to note that it’s not white sugar

987
00:35:14,466 –> 00:35:16,633
it’s it’s naturally occurring apple sugars

988
00:35:16,733 –> 00:35:17,933
all right yeah

989
00:35:17,933 –> 00:35:19,900
all right although you know

990
00:35:19,900 –> 00:35:23,333
some producers do use cane sugar to ferment um

991
00:35:23,333 –> 00:35:24,033
we don’t have to

992
00:35:24,033 –> 00:35:25,933
because when you press the apple

993
00:35:25,933 –> 00:35:27,633
super fresh at harvest like we do

994
00:35:27,633 –> 00:35:30,033
they have lots of fermentable sugar still in them

995
00:35:30,033 –> 00:35:31,700
so we we don’t need to add

996
00:35:33,033 –> 00:35:34,466
Jay I love this question

997
00:35:34,466 –> 00:35:36,033
where is the future of ciders going

998
00:35:36,033 –> 00:35:36,833
and should it

999
00:35:36,833 –> 00:35:39,400
there is we miss his previous question too

1000
00:35:39,600 –> 00:35:41,266
oh yeah Johnny Appleseed oh yeah

1001
00:35:41,266 –> 00:35:43,533
planting trees in hopes that it would turn into booze

1002
00:35:43,533 –> 00:35:44,466
was Johnny Appleseed

1003
00:35:44,466 –> 00:35:47,100
I don’t know the whole story about Johnny Appleseed

1004
00:35:47,100 –> 00:35:49,500
in hopes that it will turn into booze

1005
00:35:49,666 –> 00:35:52,000
you know my recollection and Riley

1006
00:35:52,000 –> 00:35:53,400
if you wanna chime in

1007
00:35:53,400 –> 00:35:56,533
I my understanding is that that was an actual person

1008
00:35:56,533 –> 00:35:57,533
yeah I think so

1009
00:35:57,533 –> 00:35:58,866
I think his name was Carpenter

1010
00:35:58,866 –> 00:36:00,500
I think so or something like that

1011
00:36:00,500 –> 00:36:02,933
I think it’s over the sea um

1012
00:36:03,600 –> 00:36:06,233
but I don’t feel like I really have any recollection of

1013
00:36:06,233 –> 00:36:08,800
his mission or reason

1014
00:36:09,133 –> 00:36:12,333
of why he was planting trees in it if in fact

1015
00:36:12,333 –> 00:36:15,133
he did go around planting a lot of apple seeds

1016
00:36:15,133 –> 00:36:15,833
I I feel like

1017
00:36:15,833 –> 00:36:17,433
I think that is a true story

1018
00:36:17,433 –> 00:36:19,000
and I think it was something related

1019
00:36:19,000 –> 00:36:20,166
though to like

1020
00:36:20,233 –> 00:36:21,400
trying to like

1021
00:36:21,400 –> 00:36:24,433
attract other people to build towns in those areas

1022
00:36:24,433 –> 00:36:27,033
because apples were such a big part of the culture

1023
00:36:27,033 –> 00:36:30,466
then and you could make safer water sources out of it

1024
00:36:30,466 –> 00:36:32,633
and you could eat them and so his

1025
00:36:33,133 –> 00:36:35,933
and so his thought was as I’m roaming and traveling

1026
00:36:35,933 –> 00:36:38,033
if there’s apple Orchards that come up

1027
00:36:38,033 –> 00:36:39,866
as new people come by

1028
00:36:39,866 –> 00:36:41,533
they will be more likely to settle here

1029
00:36:41,533 –> 00:36:43,400
because it’s already kind of gotten started

1030
00:36:43,700 –> 00:36:46,533
um is what I believe part of the story was but

1031
00:36:46,700 –> 00:36:49,200
someone can fact check that and probably tell us where

1032
00:36:49,233 –> 00:36:50,066
we’re way off

1033
00:36:50,066 –> 00:36:52,900
and have no idea what we’re talking about here um

1034
00:36:53,400 –> 00:36:55,466
the future of ciders is a very interesting question

1035
00:36:55,466 –> 00:36:57,333
cause I do feel like there is a lot of stuff

1036
00:36:57,333 –> 00:36:58,633
that’s hoply debated

1037
00:36:58,633 –> 00:37:00,833
um I’ll throw one thing out there

1038
00:37:00,833 –> 00:37:02,600
just to get us kicked off here

1039
00:37:02,600 –> 00:37:06,333
I think I’ve heard a lot of talk over the years about

1040
00:37:07,033 –> 00:37:08,900
how cider is moving

1041
00:37:09,400 –> 00:37:12,433
too quickly on the heels of craft beer

1042
00:37:12,433 –> 00:37:14,566
so kind of looking at the craft beer

1043
00:37:14,800 –> 00:37:15,966
industry and market

1044
00:37:16,300 –> 00:37:18,833
and seeing how the crafter industry has gotten like

1045
00:37:18,833 –> 00:37:22,733
crazy with the fruited and the sours and the barrel

1046
00:37:22,733 –> 00:37:25,533
aging and like all of these really creative

1047
00:37:25,533 –> 00:37:26,833
the Milkshake IPA right

1048
00:37:26,833 –> 00:37:28,300
all these really creative

1049
00:37:28,800 –> 00:37:30,100
crazy expressions

1050
00:37:30,300 –> 00:37:33,400
and that cider kind of started getting really popular

1051
00:37:33,400 –> 00:37:34,900
as that was going on

1052
00:37:34,900 –> 00:37:37,500
and like moved into that kind of stuff

1053
00:37:37,633 –> 00:37:39,000
a little too quickly

1054
00:37:39,000 –> 00:37:40,200
just because they were kind of like

1055
00:37:40,200 –> 00:37:41,900
well craft beer is doing it and people love it

1056
00:37:41,900 –> 00:37:42,900
in craft beer

1057
00:37:43,133 –> 00:37:45,233
where in the criticism is that

1058
00:37:45,233 –> 00:37:48,500
like the craft beer had decades

1059
00:37:48,500 –> 00:37:51,133
almost of this is what a logger is

1060
00:37:51,133 –> 00:37:52,600
and this is what a pillsner is

1061
00:37:52,600 –> 00:37:54,333
and this is what an IPA is

1062
00:37:54,333 –> 00:37:55,933
without all the bells and whistles

1063
00:37:55,933 –> 00:37:57,600
kind of confusing everyone

1064
00:37:57,933 –> 00:38:00,066
and that maybe we’re moving a little too fast into

1065
00:38:00,066 –> 00:38:02,700
fruited ciders and barrel age ciders all that

1066
00:38:02,700 –> 00:38:05,700
because people don’t even know what a dry cider or a

1067
00:38:05,900 –> 00:38:08,100
Spanish style cider is yet

1068
00:38:08,100 –> 00:38:09,400
we need baby steps

1069
00:38:09,500 –> 00:38:11,500
and so that’s my

1070
00:38:11,800 –> 00:38:13,966
thing to throw out into this conversation

1071
00:38:14,066 –> 00:38:14,800
um but I would

1072
00:38:14,800 –> 00:38:16,066
you know so I’d love to hear your

1073
00:38:16,066 –> 00:38:17,233
both of your thoughts on that

1074
00:38:17,233 –> 00:38:18,833
but also just future of cider

1075
00:38:18,833 –> 00:38:19,333
where is it going

1076
00:38:19,333 –> 00:38:20,200
and what do we think

1077
00:38:20,900 –> 00:38:22,233
yeah um yeah

1078
00:38:22,233 –> 00:38:23,433
that’s a great question

1079
00:38:23,433 –> 00:38:25,900
and I feel uh

1080
00:38:25,900 –> 00:38:27,133
right now today

1081
00:38:27,133 –> 00:38:29,433
feel pretty uniquely qualified to answer that

1082
00:38:29,433 –> 00:38:32,333
I am coming to you live from CiderCon

1083
00:38:32,333 –> 00:38:35,400
haha 2024 that’s happening right now

1084
00:38:35,433 –> 00:38:38,800
which is the largest cider symposium nationally

1085
00:38:38,800 –> 00:38:40,233
I think maybe globally

1086
00:38:40,233 –> 00:38:41,133
it’s so fun

1087
00:38:41,500 –> 00:38:43,633
it’s super fun um

1088
00:38:44,666 –> 00:38:45,266
actually Steven I

1089
00:38:45,266 –> 00:38:47,233
I realized cidercon was going on right now

1090
00:38:47,233 –> 00:38:49,100
but I did not connect the two that you were there

1091
00:38:49,100 –> 00:38:51,333
and so thank you for taking time away from all the

1092
00:38:51,333 –> 00:38:52,533
festivities to do this with us

1093
00:38:52,533 –> 00:38:53,400
that’s incredible

1094
00:38:53,400 –> 00:38:56,333
I knew that I was gonna be really wanting to share with

1095
00:38:56,333 –> 00:38:57,900
like you know

1096
00:38:57,900 –> 00:38:59,000
I get excited

1097
00:38:59,033 –> 00:39:00,000
actually um

1098
00:39:00,433 –> 00:39:03,066
but uh I would say

1099
00:39:03,066 –> 00:39:05,733
you both made really excellent points

1100
00:39:05,733 –> 00:39:06,733
um and I would

1101
00:39:06,733 –> 00:39:07,900
say I agree with you

1102
00:39:07,900 –> 00:39:09,300
on a personal level

1103
00:39:09,533 –> 00:39:13,800
um I think that it is difficult to

1104
00:39:13,900 –> 00:39:16,200
have an industry standard of what

1105
00:39:16,233 –> 00:39:17,100
quote unquote

1106
00:39:17,100 –> 00:39:19,300
real cider is

1107
00:39:20,600 –> 00:39:21,466
to have like a

1108
00:39:21,466 –> 00:39:23,466
like just a basic understanding

1109
00:39:23,466 –> 00:39:25,366
like we do with beer and wine

1110
00:39:26,266 –> 00:39:27,500
someone made a point to me today

1111
00:39:27,500 –> 00:39:29,000
that I thought was fascinating

1112
00:39:29,333 –> 00:39:33,000
that a lot of people will try one cider

1113
00:39:33,000 –> 00:39:35,666
and it will be very sweet or very tart

1114
00:39:35,666 –> 00:39:39,633
it’s not what they want and they don’t like cider yeah

1115
00:39:39,733 –> 00:39:42,100
that doesn’t really happen with beer or wine

1116
00:39:42,133 –> 00:39:43,733
you don’t try one beer

1117
00:39:44,266 –> 00:39:45,100
and you don’t like it

1118
00:39:45,100 –> 00:39:47,400
so you never try any other styles of beer

1119
00:39:47,633 –> 00:39:48,733
or you don’t like

1120
00:39:48,733 –> 00:39:49,800
um chardonnay

1121
00:39:49,800 –> 00:39:52,166
so you’re never gonna drink a cabernet sauvignon

1122
00:39:52,200 –> 00:39:53,700
like that doesn’t happen

1123
00:39:54,000 –> 00:39:56,233
um so why is it happening with cider

1124
00:39:56,433 –> 00:39:59,433
maybe it’s because it was too flooded

1125
00:39:59,433 –> 00:40:01,300
and everyone has their own definition

1126
00:40:01,900 –> 00:40:04,900
um is that is that terrible

1127
00:40:05,066 –> 00:40:09,400
no is it a barrier to progress

1128
00:40:09,400 –> 00:40:11,066
probably yes yeah

1129
00:40:11,066 –> 00:40:12,466
yeah it’s a big

1130
00:40:12,466 –> 00:40:14,933
it’s a big consumer education challenge yeah

1131
00:40:14,933 –> 00:40:16,300
really helping people

1132
00:40:16,300 –> 00:40:19,233
and hopefully all of you feel like this is helping you

1133
00:40:19,333 –> 00:40:20,233
with that challenge

1134
00:40:20,233 –> 00:40:22,800
like helping you taste through and understand

1135
00:40:22,800 –> 00:40:23,866
step by step a little bit

1136
00:40:23,866 –> 00:40:25,533
some of the varieties and the differences

1137
00:40:25,533 –> 00:40:27,200
and what’s going on in this industry yeah

1138
00:40:27,200 –> 00:40:28,733
going back to the very beginning of this

1139
00:40:28,733 –> 00:40:29,700
of this evening

1140
00:40:29,733 –> 00:40:31,400
um the idea that

1141
00:40:31,733 –> 00:40:36,233
if cider is wine and yeah

1142
00:40:36,433 –> 00:40:38,400
just because you don’t like chardonnay

1143
00:40:38,400 –> 00:40:40,033
doesn’t mean you don’t like wine

1144
00:40:40,033 –> 00:40:42,833
yeah and just because you don’t like this cider

1145
00:40:42,833 –> 00:40:44,200
doesn’t mean you don’t like cider

1146
00:40:44,200 –> 00:40:47,000
it’s easily as broad and diverse

1147
00:40:47,000 –> 00:40:51,266
and arguably more so because of the general

1148
00:40:51,266 –> 00:40:52,500
like you know

1149
00:40:53,000 –> 00:40:54,733
whether it be good or bad

1150
00:40:54,833 –> 00:40:56,300
the decision to

1151
00:40:56,300 –> 00:40:57,266
as an industry

1152
00:40:57,266 –> 00:40:58,433
with the cider world

1153
00:40:58,533 –> 00:41:01,100
hop cider and add additional fruit to the cider

1154
00:41:01,100 –> 00:41:03,933
usually wine is made from grapes yeah

1155
00:41:04,000 –> 00:41:06,333
and it’s either aged or not aged

1156
00:41:06,333 –> 00:41:08,766
but you don’t see a lot of

1157
00:41:09,233 –> 00:41:10,600
wine that’s hop

1158
00:41:10,600 –> 00:41:13,966
like I’ve never actually seen a wine that’s hop and so

1159
00:41:16,000 –> 00:41:17,300
just because you don’t like this one

1160
00:41:17,300 –> 00:41:18,433
doesn’t mean you don’t like it

1161
00:41:18,433 –> 00:41:20,700
just means you gotta keep drinking and keep trying more

1162
00:41:20,700 –> 00:41:22,400
guys I hate to break it to you

1163
00:41:22,633 –> 00:41:23,800
persist yeah

1164
00:41:23,800 –> 00:41:24,733
persist persist

1165
00:41:24,733 –> 00:41:25,300
drink through it

1166
00:41:25,300 –> 00:41:26,200
drink through it

1167
00:41:26,200 –> 00:41:27,700
yeah you’ll

1168
00:41:27,700 –> 00:41:28,700
you’ll find the site

1169
00:41:28,700 –> 00:41:30,933
the cider or the wine or whatever that you love

1170
00:41:30,933 –> 00:41:32,866
um yeah let’s move on to the brute Rose

1171
00:41:32,866 –> 00:41:35,600
and then great question from Bob and Kristen here

1172
00:41:35,600 –> 00:41:37,000
so um back in my youth

1173
00:41:37,000 –> 00:41:38,800
the Buddy Rehab Decider press

1174
00:41:38,833 –> 00:41:40,400
we gathered a pile of apples

1175
00:41:40,400 –> 00:41:42,366
and cranked them through the press

1176
00:41:42,466 –> 00:41:44,133
the product was delicious

1177
00:41:44,200 –> 00:41:45,833
then it got nice and tangy

1178
00:41:46,000 –> 00:41:48,700
but all too quickly turned sour

1179
00:41:49,033 –> 00:41:51,000
how could we have turned it into cider

1180
00:41:52,733 –> 00:41:54,800
you very well may have

1181
00:41:55,433 –> 00:41:57,200
I think you probably did

1182
00:41:57,533 –> 00:42:01,733
um I think that sometimes uh well

1183
00:42:01,733 –> 00:42:04,900
it sounds like the issue there was volatile acidity

1184
00:42:05,666 –> 00:42:07,833
so that is um

1185
00:42:08,033 –> 00:42:10,600
something that happens when again

1186
00:42:10,600 –> 00:42:11,666
the yeast is stressed

1187
00:42:11,666 –> 00:42:14,366
when it’s not ideal fermentation conditions

1188
00:42:15,033 –> 00:42:18,033
um also it sort of depends on the environment

1189
00:42:18,033 –> 00:42:18,933
it’s fermented in

1190
00:42:18,933 –> 00:42:20,666
if it’s not very sterile

1191
00:42:20,666 –> 00:42:23,900
I always say that cider making is 90% cleaning

1192
00:42:24,066 –> 00:42:26,433
wine making is 90% cleaning

1193
00:42:26,866 –> 00:42:28,900
um kind of obsessively

1194
00:42:29,533 –> 00:42:32,433
there’s a lot that can fall out of balance and a lot of

1195
00:42:32,433 –> 00:42:34,100
a lot of kind of um

1196
00:42:34,100 –> 00:42:37,433
we just kind of use the term flaw broadly

1197
00:42:37,600 –> 00:42:38,833
flaws can come out

1198
00:42:39,733 –> 00:42:41,700
yeah and you know very well

1199
00:42:41,700 –> 00:42:43,466
like also that could have

1200
00:42:43,466 –> 00:42:45,200
that could have been a

1201
00:42:46,266 –> 00:42:47,500
you know fresh

1202
00:42:47,800 –> 00:42:49,133
non alcoholic cider

1203
00:42:49,133 –> 00:42:51,566
and then it could have become hard cider

1204
00:42:51,600 –> 00:42:54,433
and then just a little bit of an incetive actor

1205
00:42:54,433 –> 00:42:57,533
and it could have turned the alcohol into vinegar

1206
00:42:58,833 –> 00:43:00,766
that could have happened very easily as well

1207
00:43:02,200 –> 00:43:03,000
yeah

1208
00:43:04,233 –> 00:43:07,833
tell us about this brute rose Brute

1209
00:43:07,833 –> 00:43:11,533
Rose is a um

1210
00:43:12,333 –> 00:43:15,000
cider infused with red current

1211
00:43:15,466 –> 00:43:22,833
so this particular product was made for my boss because

1212
00:43:22,833 –> 00:43:25,700
where we live in the Northeast Kingdom of Vermont

1213
00:43:25,700 –> 00:43:28,233
we’re on the Canadian border it

1214
00:43:29,266 –> 00:43:30,700
we have like

1215
00:43:30,900 –> 00:43:35,200
probably like 6 to 8 months of just like gray sadness

1216
00:43:35,533 –> 00:43:38,000
and in um in the

1217
00:43:38,000 –> 00:43:40,066
in the spring we have um

1218
00:43:40,066 –> 00:43:42,966
between winter and spring we have mud season

1219
00:43:43,066 –> 00:43:45,100
so uh the roads wash out

1220
00:43:45,100 –> 00:43:46,100
you can’t get anywhere

1221
00:43:46,100 –> 00:43:47,866
it’s ugly uh

1222
00:43:47,866 –> 00:43:48,733
and Eleanor

1223
00:43:48,733 –> 00:43:49,600
our boss said

1224
00:43:49,600 –> 00:43:53,533
I want to feel like I’m in the south of France wow

1225
00:43:53,533 –> 00:43:56,400
I want to drink something that will make me feel like

1226
00:43:56,400 –> 00:43:58,600
I’m sitting on the French Riviera

1227
00:43:58,733 –> 00:44:01,233
and this is sort of what came about um

1228
00:44:01,233 –> 00:44:02,933
very Provence all rose

1229
00:44:03,933 –> 00:44:05,900
it’s kind of a unique thing for us

1230
00:44:05,900 –> 00:44:08,433
typically we let the apple sort of do their thing

1231
00:44:08,433 –> 00:44:09,500
and the cider is

1232
00:44:09,500 –> 00:44:11,033
is what it’s gonna be

1233
00:44:11,033 –> 00:44:15,866
this is one where we kind of wanted to make a beverage

1234
00:44:15,866 –> 00:44:18,733
we want it to be this

1235
00:44:18,733 –> 00:44:21,800
so we um sourced currents from

1236
00:44:21,800 –> 00:44:23,433
our currents actually come from Germany

1237
00:44:24,000 –> 00:44:26,300
and that’s where red currents grow in abundance

1238
00:44:26,300 –> 00:44:28,566
and they’re able to export

1239
00:44:28,733 –> 00:44:30,766
really hard to source them domestically

1240
00:44:32,133 –> 00:44:34,866
but so basically we ferment the cider

1241
00:44:34,866 –> 00:44:38,833
we add a little bit of ice cider back in um

1242
00:44:38,833 –> 00:44:40,866
so we blend that and a little bit of red current

1243
00:44:40,866 –> 00:44:43,533
which has lots of earthy tannin and spice

1244
00:44:43,533 –> 00:44:45,800
sort of that like great cranberry

1245
00:44:46,233 –> 00:44:49,733
baking spice note almost um

1246
00:44:49,733 –> 00:44:50,866
and it’s just like

1247
00:44:50,866 –> 00:44:53,533
supremely fruity and crushable and wonderful

1248
00:44:53,900 –> 00:44:55,666
it really ended nose on this

1249
00:44:55,666 –> 00:44:57,700
I just want to hang out with my nose in the glass

1250
00:44:57,700 –> 00:44:59,933
strawberry jam oh yeah

1251
00:45:01,033 –> 00:45:02,633
what does a current taste like

1252
00:45:02,633 –> 00:45:04,600
it’s been a long time since I’ve had a

1253
00:45:04,600 –> 00:45:06,400
is it kind of like a dried cranberry

1254
00:45:06,400 –> 00:45:07,833
is it real intense cranberry

1255
00:45:07,833 –> 00:45:09,266
so it’s like a smaller cranberry

1256
00:45:09,266 –> 00:45:12,100
the Berry itself is probably about a you know

1257
00:45:12,100 –> 00:45:14,466
half third to half a size of a cranberry

1258
00:45:14,466 –> 00:45:18,300
so it’s just more ratio of skin to flesh

1259
00:45:18,300 –> 00:45:22,533
so it’s like more more mouth drying more tart

1260
00:45:22,700 –> 00:45:25,466
but they’re also sweeter than cranberries right

1261
00:45:25,466 –> 00:45:26,533
little bit much

1262
00:45:26,533 –> 00:45:27,600
yeah little bit

1263
00:45:28,633 –> 00:45:30,033
I feel like they don’t

1264
00:45:30,033 –> 00:45:32,200
like they’re not really cultivated

1265
00:45:32,466 –> 00:45:35,433
and they don’t grow indigenous to the United States

1266
00:45:35,433 –> 00:45:37,133
like black currents are invasive

1267
00:45:37,133 –> 00:45:38,600
so they’re prohibited from growing

1268
00:45:38,600 –> 00:45:41,566
so I think folks just think current is bad

1269
00:45:41,600 –> 00:45:43,433
red currents are not invasive

1270
00:45:43,433 –> 00:45:44,633
but interesting

1271
00:45:44,666 –> 00:45:45,266
interesting

1272
00:45:45,266 –> 00:45:46,900
I realize that they were invasive

1273
00:45:46,900 –> 00:45:49,833
you know why don’t we talk about the tree beard as well

1274
00:45:49,833 –> 00:45:52,133
because I feel like we have a chatty audience tonight

1275
00:45:52,133 –> 00:45:54,633
and so we might all get some questions and we get to

1276
00:45:54,633 –> 00:45:55,666
well jump in here and

1277
00:45:55,666 –> 00:45:56,733
and open this up

1278
00:45:56,733 –> 00:45:58,400
which we’re done getting through these

1279
00:45:58,400 –> 00:45:58,900
these delicious

1280
00:45:58,900 –> 00:46:00,733
deliciousness awesome

1281
00:46:01,066 –> 00:46:04,500
um so Tree Beard is going to be

1282
00:46:04,900 –> 00:46:06,333
uh do you want me to jump in

1283
00:46:06,333 –> 00:46:07,466
go for it yes please

1284
00:46:07,466 –> 00:46:09,100
Tree Beard is going to be another

1285
00:46:09,100 –> 00:46:11,100
um totally bone dry cider

1286
00:46:11,100 –> 00:46:13,800
just like the deep cut that you had first

1287
00:46:14,033 –> 00:46:17,833
um so it’s going to be a little bit more wine

1288
00:46:17,833 –> 00:46:20,833
like in its base and a little less fruit forward

1289
00:46:21,433 –> 00:46:24,900
and then we put fresh hops in this

1290
00:46:24,900 –> 00:46:29,000
so fresh hops is a term that’s like

1291
00:46:29,000 –> 00:46:32,700
not really the official term in beer

1292
00:46:32,700 –> 00:46:34,800
you either dry hop or wet hop

1293
00:46:35,033 –> 00:46:36,233
so it’s seasonal

1294
00:46:36,233 –> 00:46:38,033
a wet hop is when hops are in season

1295
00:46:38,033 –> 00:46:40,200
and you throw the whole sort of

1296
00:46:40,200 –> 00:46:41,733
um you know

1297
00:46:41,733 –> 00:46:43,866
bud of the hop in the beer to

1298
00:46:43,866 –> 00:46:45,533
to steep uh

1299
00:46:45,533 –> 00:46:47,300
and then pretty much for the rest

1300
00:46:47,300 –> 00:46:48,300
of the year

1301
00:46:48,333 –> 00:46:49,466
not in fall

1302
00:46:49,466 –> 00:46:51,000
you would dry a hop

1303
00:46:51,100 –> 00:46:52,833
put it into a pellet and throw that

1304
00:46:52,833 –> 00:46:53,933
and then that’s dry hopping

1305
00:46:53,933 –> 00:46:55,933
or dry the hops themselves whatever

1306
00:46:56,100 –> 00:46:57,900
so we fresh hop

1307
00:46:57,900 –> 00:47:00,933
which is closest to wet hopping

1308
00:47:01,433 –> 00:47:07,600
um but we kind of coined this term fresh hopped because

1309
00:47:07,733 –> 00:47:09,466
we drive to the hop farm

1310
00:47:09,466 –> 00:47:11,633
the day these bad boys are picked

1311
00:47:11,833 –> 00:47:12,900
uh huh pick them up

1312
00:47:12,900 –> 00:47:14,700
we drive back to the cidery

1313
00:47:14,700 –> 00:47:16,300
it’s like six hours round trip

1314
00:47:16,300 –> 00:47:18,300
but it’s really important that they go in

1315
00:47:18,300 –> 00:47:19,633
the day that they’re picked

1316
00:47:20,200 –> 00:47:22,266
um and we steep it really

1317
00:47:22,266 –> 00:47:23,433
really gently

1318
00:47:23,600 –> 00:47:25,633
so we want a delicate extraction

1319
00:47:25,633 –> 00:47:27,233
um the way I like to put it is

1320
00:47:27,233 –> 00:47:30,400
we’re going for verdant not resin

1321
00:47:30,600 –> 00:47:34,433
so we want something really bright and green and um

1322
00:47:34,433 –> 00:47:37,433
herbal and we don’t want something that’s like

1323
00:47:37,433 –> 00:47:38,633
we don’t want the bitterness

1324
00:47:38,633 –> 00:47:41,066
we don’t want to over extract and get to like

1325
00:47:41,066 –> 00:47:42,300
IPA territory

1326
00:47:42,666 –> 00:47:45,400
um this one to me

1327
00:47:45,533 –> 00:47:46,500
close your eyes

1328
00:47:46,500 –> 00:47:48,400
and it’s like a sauvignon blanc

1329
00:47:48,400 –> 00:47:51,500
it’s it is such a fun cider

1330
00:47:51,733 –> 00:47:54,633
um I don’t love hop cider in general

1331
00:47:54,633 –> 00:47:58,233
I was a little reluctant to making this but uh

1332
00:47:58,233 –> 00:48:00,033
we found a really great hop partner

1333
00:48:00,033 –> 00:48:01,333
they’re organically grown

1334
00:48:01,333 –> 00:48:02,000
they’re beautiful

1335
00:48:02,000 –> 00:48:02,900
the hop varieties

1336
00:48:02,900 –> 00:48:04,100
if anyone’s a beer nerd

1337
00:48:04,100 –> 00:48:05,033
are Cascade

1338
00:48:05,033 –> 00:48:06,233
Willammette and

1339
00:48:06,233 –> 00:48:07,233
um Centennial

1340
00:48:08,000 –> 00:48:09,266
so all Vermont grown

1341
00:48:09,266 –> 00:48:11,700
um we steep them for about two weeks

1342
00:48:11,700 –> 00:48:14,200
and then it’s pressed off uh very

1343
00:48:14,200 –> 00:48:14,933
very gently

1344
00:48:14,933 –> 00:48:17,966
so we don’t wanna overextract the

1345
00:48:18,033 –> 00:48:19,033
the rhizomes

1346
00:48:19,133 –> 00:48:21,833
um we use a tincture press

1347
00:48:21,833 –> 00:48:23,600
which is a tincy tincy

1348
00:48:23,600 –> 00:48:26,900
it’s about the size of a 5 gallon bucket press

1349
00:48:27,400 –> 00:48:28,666
um it’s laborious

1350
00:48:28,666 –> 00:48:30,000
it takes forever

1351
00:48:30,000 –> 00:48:32,266
but that’s the only way we can get that delicate

1352
00:48:32,266 –> 00:48:33,033
extraction so

1353
00:48:33,033 –> 00:48:34,233
that’s how we do that

1354
00:48:35,066 –> 00:48:36,533
it’s really lovely I

1355
00:48:36,600 –> 00:48:37,066
you know the

1356
00:48:37,066 –> 00:48:39,100
I feel like the first hopsider I ever had

1357
00:48:39,100 –> 00:48:40,333
I totally fell in love with

1358
00:48:40,333 –> 00:48:41,500
it was just a beautifully named

1359
00:48:41,500 –> 00:48:42,433
I’m forgetting

1360
00:48:42,633 –> 00:48:44,433
who it was right at the moment

1361
00:48:44,600 –> 00:48:46,066
and then so I thought like

1362
00:48:46,066 –> 00:48:47,233
oh I love hopsiders

1363
00:48:47,233 –> 00:48:50,300
I really started trying a bunch of them and man

1364
00:48:50,300 –> 00:48:52,733
there are a lot of bad hopsiders out there

1365
00:48:52,866 –> 00:48:54,000
like a lot that

1366
00:48:54,000 –> 00:48:54,900
honestly to me

1367
00:48:54,900 –> 00:48:56,533
just end up tasting like an armpit

1368
00:48:56,533 –> 00:48:57,300
kind of like

1369
00:48:57,300 –> 00:48:58,333
they just go like

1370
00:48:58,333 –> 00:48:59,500
over the top with

1371
00:48:59,500 –> 00:49:01,100
like the yeah

1372
00:49:01,300 –> 00:49:02,666
like what are you trying to cover up with

1373
00:49:02,666 –> 00:49:03,633
this hop flavor yeah

1374
00:49:03,633 –> 00:49:05,033
well I think the apple

1375
00:49:05,033 –> 00:49:05,900
combined with that

1376
00:49:05,900 –> 00:49:06,800
like really

1377
00:49:06,800 –> 00:49:07,933
like hoppy hoppy

1378
00:49:07,933 –> 00:49:10,233
like can just get a little weird sometimes

1379
00:49:10,233 –> 00:49:11,066
yeah when you’ve got the

1380
00:49:11,066 –> 00:49:12,200
like the roasted malt

1381
00:49:12,200 –> 00:49:13,900
sweetness density in a beer

1382
00:49:13,900 –> 00:49:16,300
you can have a lot more hop character

1383
00:49:16,300 –> 00:49:17,900
yeah but the delicacy of

1384
00:49:17,900 –> 00:49:19,500
a lot of ciders don’t

1385
00:49:19,500 –> 00:49:20,300
necessarily

1386
00:49:20,300 –> 00:49:21,133
stand up to it

1387
00:49:21,133 –> 00:49:22,866
unless you do delicates

1388
00:49:22,866 –> 00:49:24,866
and this is beautiful

1389
00:49:24,866 –> 00:49:25,833
and when you said

1390
00:49:25,833 –> 00:49:26,533
probably on Blanc

1391
00:49:26,533 –> 00:49:27,933
I can definitely see that

1392
00:49:27,933 –> 00:49:28,833
like I don’t know what I would

1393
00:49:28,833 –> 00:49:30,233
got there myself but it is

1394
00:49:30,233 –> 00:49:31,333
it has that like

1395
00:49:31,333 –> 00:49:32,900
Fresh Vibrancy

1396
00:49:32,900 –> 00:49:34,100
a New Zealand self blog

1397
00:49:34,100 –> 00:49:37,233
we’re not talking sure yeah

1398
00:49:38,300 –> 00:49:39,266
it’s really

1399
00:49:39,266 –> 00:49:40,800
tomato leaf just

1400
00:49:42,200 –> 00:49:45,300
yeah all of these Riley are I mean it you know

1401
00:49:45,300 –> 00:49:47,066
I knew I knew I loved the insiders

1402
00:49:47,066 –> 00:49:49,300
but it’s always so fun to taste through them

1403
00:49:49,300 –> 00:49:51,233
like focused like this and really

1404
00:49:51,300 –> 00:49:53,633
really go through them thanks

1405
00:49:54,733 –> 00:49:57,066
let’s move on to the peace divisist on yeah

1406
00:49:57,066 –> 00:49:59,500
time for the big show cool

1407
00:50:01,633 –> 00:50:02,900
so so ice ciders

1408
00:50:02,900 –> 00:50:04,100
tell him I haven’t opened this yet

1409
00:50:04,100 –> 00:50:04,900
you’re in for a treat

1410
00:50:04,900 –> 00:50:07,400
yeah yeah yes you are uh

1411
00:50:07,400 –> 00:50:12,900
so Ice cider is uh where Eden Ciders got its start yeah

1412
00:50:13,400 –> 00:50:17,600
um back in 0 7 it was uh

1413
00:50:18,666 –> 00:50:22,533
born out of a weekend trip to Montreal

1414
00:50:22,600 –> 00:50:26,233
um so ice cider is um

1415
00:50:26,833 –> 00:50:30,833
native or was was developed in Quebec

1416
00:50:31,300 –> 00:50:35,000
uh so in the tradition of the German ice vine

1417
00:50:35,000 –> 00:50:36,300
where grapes freeze on the

1418
00:50:36,300 –> 00:50:38,800
on the vine and then they’re pressed um

1419
00:50:38,800 –> 00:50:42,033
and the sugars are concentrated then uh

1420
00:50:42,033 –> 00:50:45,433
there was a really kooky guy in Quebec in the 7

1421
00:50:45,433 –> 00:50:47,133
the 1970s that started

1422
00:50:47,133 –> 00:50:50,566
playing with that same methodology at his home Orchard

1423
00:50:50,833 –> 00:50:52,366
uh in his own basement

1424
00:50:52,733 –> 00:50:55,800
and finally around the late 80s early 90s

1425
00:50:55,800 –> 00:50:59,466
he started really producing ice cider uh

1426
00:50:59,466 –> 00:51:02,133
and it was recognized by the SAQ

1427
00:51:02,133 –> 00:51:03,200
the Canadian

1428
00:51:03,200 –> 00:51:07,966
you know alcohol governance as its own product um

1429
00:51:08,333 –> 00:51:10,200
fast forward 15 years

1430
00:51:10,600 –> 00:51:11,500
Eleanor my boss

1431
00:51:11,500 –> 00:51:13,966
the founder of Eden travels to Montreal

1432
00:51:14,400 –> 00:51:17,633
for a weekend with her husband after they had um

1433
00:51:18,266 –> 00:51:20,266
left her career in Wall Street

1434
00:51:20,266 –> 00:51:22,700
she had a first career in Wall Street haha

1435
00:51:22,933 –> 00:51:27,166
um they bought an abandoned dairy farm um

1436
00:51:27,700 –> 00:51:29,700
and we’re just gonna move really

1437
00:51:29,700 –> 00:51:30,833
they went up to Montreal

1438
00:51:30,833 –> 00:51:33,233
they tried ice cider for the first time

1439
00:51:33,233 –> 00:51:36,033
and their worlds changed on a dime

1440
00:51:36,200 –> 00:51:36,800
they were like

1441
00:51:36,800 –> 00:51:37,866
what is this

1442
00:51:37,866 –> 00:51:39,533
we have to make this

1443
00:51:39,633 –> 00:51:43,433
it’s a little caraware based yeah um

1444
00:51:43,633 –> 00:51:46,266
and it is uh

1445
00:51:46,266 –> 00:51:47,233
it’s dessert wine

1446
00:51:47,233 –> 00:51:49,433
so basically ice cider

1447
00:51:49,433 –> 00:51:52,700
the ice portion comes in from freezing

1448
00:51:52,933 –> 00:51:54,566
prior to fermentation

1449
00:51:54,933 –> 00:51:58,200
so the process of making ice cider can be done

1450
00:51:58,733 –> 00:52:01,700
two ways and still be classified as an ice cider

1451
00:52:01,700 –> 00:52:05,400
so you can allow the apples to freeze on the trees

1452
00:52:05,400 –> 00:52:07,900
so after the first frost of the year

1453
00:52:07,900 –> 00:52:08,600
which you know

1454
00:52:08,600 –> 00:52:12,100
happens usually after harvest is well over

1455
00:52:13,633 –> 00:52:15,333
you can let those freeze on the trees

1456
00:52:15,333 –> 00:52:17,733
and press those frozen apples

1457
00:52:17,733 –> 00:52:18,800
they have a special name

1458
00:52:18,800 –> 00:52:20,133
they’re called griggles

1459
00:52:20,233 –> 00:52:21,566
when they freeze on the trees

1460
00:52:22,000 –> 00:52:23,900
griggles cute

1461
00:52:24,400 –> 00:52:27,133
and then you take that juice

1462
00:52:27,133 –> 00:52:28,900
that’s going to be very concentrated

1463
00:52:28,900 –> 00:52:30,133
because they were frozen

1464
00:52:30,133 –> 00:52:34,500
and sort of the water is sapped in that process um

1465
00:52:34,833 –> 00:52:38,200
and you’re gonna have a really concentrated raw cider

1466
00:52:38,400 –> 00:52:39,766
that when you ferment

1467
00:52:40,100 –> 00:52:42,300
you’ll be able to ferment to hire alcohol

1468
00:52:42,300 –> 00:52:44,433
cause you’ll have more sugar to start

1469
00:52:44,433 –> 00:52:46,466
and basically your

1470
00:52:46,466 –> 00:52:50,133
your guide to fermentation is yeast eats sugar and

1471
00:52:50,433 –> 00:52:51,600
expels alcohol

1472
00:52:51,600 –> 00:52:54,266
produces alcohol um

1473
00:52:54,266 –> 00:52:56,666
and so when you have all this extra sugar

1474
00:52:56,666 –> 00:52:58,300
you can ferment extra high

1475
00:52:58,300 –> 00:53:00,533
this is about 11% alcohol

1476
00:53:00,600 –> 00:53:02,033
and still maintain all of the

1477
00:53:02,033 –> 00:53:03,566
this residual sweetness

1478
00:53:04,000 –> 00:53:06,200
um so this the raw

1479
00:53:06,200 –> 00:53:10,866
material that you get is only about 10% of the volume

1480
00:53:10,866 –> 00:53:12,500
of the fresh press cider

1481
00:53:12,533 –> 00:53:14,133
as it happens wow

1482
00:53:14,133 –> 00:53:16,800
um so and the way that that’s extracted

1483
00:53:16,800 –> 00:53:18,733
is either through freezing on the trees

1484
00:53:19,600 –> 00:53:23,800
or what we do is we press our apples fresh

1485
00:53:24,033 –> 00:53:25,000
peak ripeness

1486
00:53:25,000 –> 00:53:28,233
when they have all the fermentable sugars available

1487
00:53:28,433 –> 00:53:29,800
and then we um

1488
00:53:30,100 –> 00:53:33,800
stick the liquid in totes outside uh big

1489
00:53:33,800 –> 00:53:34,633
I wish I had a picture

1490
00:53:34,633 –> 00:53:35,833
I should have thought about

1491
00:53:36,000 –> 00:53:38,133
uh a big um

1492
00:53:38,133 –> 00:53:41,000
stack of plastic totes of apple juice

1493
00:53:41,000 –> 00:53:42,233
and in the winter

1494
00:53:42,233 –> 00:53:45,700
they freeze solid and um

1495
00:53:46,600 –> 00:53:47,500
then in the spring

1496
00:53:47,500 –> 00:53:48,633
as things thaw

1497
00:53:48,800 –> 00:53:52,166
that frozen solution starts to thaw

1498
00:53:52,233 –> 00:53:53,966
based on density

1499
00:53:54,233 –> 00:53:56,633
so the apple solution

1500
00:53:56,733 –> 00:53:59,533
the sugars are more dense than water

1501
00:53:59,633 –> 00:54:02,300
so they will fall to the bottom of that vessel

1502
00:54:02,300 –> 00:54:05,300
and think like when you melt a popsicle

1503
00:54:05,300 –> 00:54:06,933
when you melt a freeze pop

1504
00:54:07,133 –> 00:54:08,266
you’ll get the

1505
00:54:08,266 –> 00:54:13,100
the sugary stuff melts first because it has a

1506
00:54:13,533 –> 00:54:15,800
higher melt point lower melt

1507
00:54:16,100 –> 00:54:16,800
higher melt point

1508
00:54:16,800 –> 00:54:18,000
I always get it backwards

1509
00:54:18,133 –> 00:54:19,866
uh so you’ll get the

1510
00:54:19,866 –> 00:54:20,300
the concentrate

1511
00:54:20,300 –> 00:54:23,500
will melt first and leave behind an ice cap

1512
00:54:23,633 –> 00:54:27,066
so we’re able just to capture that very

1513
00:54:27,066 –> 00:54:28,666
concentrated first melt

1514
00:54:28,666 –> 00:54:31,633
which is pretty much all liquid apple sugar

1515
00:54:32,000 –> 00:54:34,200
and that’s what we do to ferment um

1516
00:54:34,333 –> 00:54:35,400
the ice cider

1517
00:54:35,400 –> 00:54:37,100
so this particular cider

1518
00:54:37,466 –> 00:54:39,100
is about uh

1519
00:54:39,100 –> 00:54:42,533
18 different varieties of heirloom apples

1520
00:54:42,533 –> 00:54:44,866
all grown specific for cider production

1521
00:54:44,866 –> 00:54:46,533
so those ones that wouldn’t necessarily

1522
00:54:46,533 –> 00:54:48,033
taste great to eat

1523
00:54:48,133 –> 00:54:50,266
but they ferment really long

1524
00:54:50,266 –> 00:54:51,433
slow and cold

1525
00:54:51,433 –> 00:54:52,300
beautifully

1526
00:54:52,900 –> 00:54:54,400
um and yeah

1527
00:54:54,400 –> 00:54:55,800
you can see outside of our red barn

1528
00:54:55,800 –> 00:54:57,100
that’s that’s uh

1529
00:54:57,100 –> 00:55:01,066
the scene of the winter there um

1530
00:55:01,066 –> 00:55:02,600
but uh so yeah

1531
00:55:02,600 –> 00:55:04,100
that’s basically how it goes

1532
00:55:04,100 –> 00:55:07,000
the ice cider is fermented to about 10%

1533
00:55:07,000 –> 00:55:09,800
we stop the fermentation by

1534
00:55:09,800 –> 00:55:12,033
cold crashing again to kill the yeast

1535
00:55:12,466 –> 00:55:13,800
um and then

1536
00:55:13,833 –> 00:55:15,133
really importantly

1537
00:55:15,133 –> 00:55:18,933
we age the ice cider for at least 1 year

1538
00:55:18,933 –> 00:55:23,233
but closer to 3 years in tank prior to release um

1539
00:55:23,233 –> 00:55:26,766
because part of that intensity of sugar

1540
00:55:26,800 –> 00:55:27,933
in the concentrate

1541
00:55:27,933 –> 00:55:31,733
is that all the flavors are very intense um

1542
00:55:31,733 –> 00:55:33,466
and we really want it to sort of round out

1543
00:55:33,466 –> 00:55:37,300
and get silky and a tiny bit oxidized um

1544
00:55:37,300 –> 00:55:38,500
interact with

1545
00:55:38,500 –> 00:55:40,000
with oxygen a tiny bit

1546
00:55:40,033 –> 00:55:42,066
so that it gets this beautiful

1547
00:55:42,066 –> 00:55:44,933
silky almost um

1548
00:55:45,300 –> 00:55:48,100
like tropical fruit

1549
00:55:48,200 –> 00:55:49,200
pineapple pie

1550
00:55:49,200 –> 00:55:52,200
pineapple upside down cake thing um

1551
00:55:52,200 –> 00:55:53,233
so that’s what we’re going for

1552
00:55:53,233 –> 00:55:55,233
there are these

1553
00:55:55,233 –> 00:55:56,600
the tanks Riley

1554
00:55:56,600 –> 00:55:57,400
those are them

1555
00:55:57,400 –> 00:55:58,700
thank you for finding it

1556
00:55:58,700 –> 00:56:00,266
that is a spider

1557
00:56:00,266 –> 00:56:01,800
resting for the winter

1558
00:56:02,700 –> 00:56:04,100
cool so they just sit outside

1559
00:56:04,100 –> 00:56:06,866
getting chilly and cold all winter long in Vermont huh

1560
00:56:06,866 –> 00:56:08,433
and you sure do yep

1561
00:56:08,433 –> 00:56:11,200
it’s such a cool process yeah

1562
00:56:11,200 –> 00:56:14,033
just to clarify a little bit of the process itself

1563
00:56:15,400 –> 00:56:16,800
effectually

1564
00:56:17,333 –> 00:56:19,366
what you were describing is that the

1565
00:56:19,466 –> 00:56:20,766
the less dense

1566
00:56:21,033 –> 00:56:25,366
sugar and constituents of the cider that are not water

1567
00:56:25,666 –> 00:56:27,266
melt first yes

1568
00:56:27,266 –> 00:56:30,800
and then the water that is still frozen

1569
00:56:30,833 –> 00:56:34,300
you will remove the

1570
00:56:35,000 –> 00:56:37,000
and by doing so

1571
00:56:37,000 –> 00:56:39,100
concentrate it so you don’t let the water

1572
00:56:39,500 –> 00:56:43,166
continue to melt and mix with those constituent parts

1573
00:56:43,466 –> 00:56:46,166
you take the water out in its ice form

1574
00:56:47,833 –> 00:56:49,333
that’s pretty cool

1575
00:56:50,466 –> 00:56:53,100
so let’s um £8

1576
00:56:53,266 –> 00:56:57,566
£8 £8 off by one and so close

1577
00:56:57,900 –> 00:57:00,933
um so we’ll keep answering these questions

1578
00:57:00,933 –> 00:57:02,500
we’ll get to the UV effect

1579
00:57:02,500 –> 00:57:03,600
but I’m going to um

1580
00:57:03,600 –> 00:57:04,633
just so everyone knows

1581
00:57:04,633 –> 00:57:07,200
I’m gonna basically promote everyone to panelist

1582
00:57:07,400 –> 00:57:09,700
you can turn it down and still stay off camera

1583
00:57:09,700 –> 00:57:11,666
and keep listening in if you would like to

1584
00:57:11,666 –> 00:57:12,933
or you can accept it

1585
00:57:12,933 –> 00:57:15,500
and then that will allow you to turn your camera on

1586
00:57:15,633 –> 00:57:17,466
and unmute yourself

1587
00:57:17,466 –> 00:57:20,666
and just join in on the party a little bit um

1588
00:57:20,666 –> 00:57:21,833
and before I do that

1589
00:57:21,833 –> 00:57:24,400
I do wanna remind everyone if you um

1590
00:57:24,400 –> 00:57:25,700
in your SipScout kit

1591
00:57:25,700 –> 00:57:27,733
at the bottom of your SipScout report

1592
00:57:27,733 –> 00:57:28,666
our friends at press

1593
00:57:28,666 –> 00:57:32,633
then press did offer up a promo code to get 10% off for

1594
00:57:32,633 –> 00:57:35,600
anything you order on their site or free shipping

1595
00:57:35,600 –> 00:57:38,633
if you use the promo code CRAFTYCAST12 for

1596
00:57:38,866 –> 00:57:42,133
12 or more bottles or cans um

1597
00:57:42,133 –> 00:57:44,266
so being able to mix and add yeah

1598
00:57:44,266 –> 00:57:45,733
being able to mix and add and press them

1599
00:57:45,733 –> 00:57:47,333
press and press is a pretty cool

1600
00:57:47,333 –> 00:57:49,200
has a great craft cider selection

1601
00:57:49,200 –> 00:57:52,600
so not only can you stock up on some Eden cider

1602
00:57:52,700 –> 00:57:55,133
um and they have other varieties of Eden cider

1603
00:57:55,133 –> 00:57:56,100
and their ice cider too

1604
00:57:56,100 –> 00:57:57,133
because Eden you guys

1605
00:57:57,133 –> 00:57:59,500
you make a few different varieties of ice cider

1606
00:57:59,500 –> 00:58:01,166
uh huh we do

1607
00:58:01,200 –> 00:58:03,333
and I also need you to tell everyone about Orleans

1608
00:58:03,333 –> 00:58:05,833
because that is like one of my all time

1609
00:58:05,866 –> 00:58:06,833
mind blowing

1610
00:58:07,000 –> 00:58:08,033
favorite things

1611
00:58:08,300 –> 00:58:09,366
whole world

1612
00:58:10,266 –> 00:58:11,200
but so everyone

1613
00:58:11,200 –> 00:58:12,766
when you get your um

1614
00:58:12,833 –> 00:58:13,500
promote to panelist

1615
00:58:13,500 –> 00:58:16,033
either accept it and join us for the party or don’t

1616
00:58:16,033 –> 00:58:18,666
if any of you have to leave and you are

1617
00:58:18,666 –> 00:58:20,433
don’t wanna stay for a happy hour

1618
00:58:20,533 –> 00:58:23,033
cheers and thank you for joining us

1619
00:58:23,033 –> 00:58:25,666
but hopefully you will all stay and keep drinking

1620
00:58:25,666 –> 00:58:27,733
this delicious cider with us

1621
00:58:27,733 –> 00:58:30,600
um and I’ll put those promo codes in here as well

1622
00:58:30,600 –> 00:58:34,400
once we get rocking and rolling here so that um

1623
00:58:34,433 –> 00:58:35,900
if you didn’t get the kit

1624
00:58:35,900 –> 00:58:38,900
you can still get a nice discount on Eat Insiders

1625
00:58:39,433 –> 00:58:42,000
so Riley I know the uh

1626
00:58:42,233 –> 00:58:45,600
the Orleans has been around for a little while

1627
00:58:45,866 –> 00:58:49,333
um but what was the inspiration

1628
00:58:49,466 –> 00:58:50,300
yeah tell us about what

1629
00:58:50,300 –> 00:58:51,100
okay I’m sorry

1630
00:58:51,100 –> 00:58:52,533
I’m getting ahead of myself

1631
00:58:52,733 –> 00:58:57,800
um would you mind telling us what that is

1632
00:58:57,800 –> 00:59:01,500
and how on the planet you came up with these ideas

1633
00:59:01,500 –> 00:59:07,366
yeah um so our Orleans line is a line of cider

1634
00:59:07,633 –> 00:59:10,733
aperitifs so um

1635
00:59:11,600 –> 00:59:15,333
it happened um

1636
00:59:16,400 –> 00:59:18,300
as a lot of things happen

1637
00:59:18,300 –> 00:59:19,300
like we were talking about

1638
00:59:19,300 –> 00:59:21,833
just making wine in the first place um

1639
00:59:22,533 –> 00:59:23,600
by accident

1640
00:59:23,600 –> 00:59:27,533
so the orlene’s

1641
00:59:27,533 –> 00:59:30,300
uh base is uh

1642
00:59:30,300 –> 00:59:33,766
2nd freeze of ice cider

1643
00:59:34,033 –> 00:59:36,366
so basically um

1644
00:59:36,500 –> 00:59:38,433
it’s a byproduct of the ice cider process

1645
00:59:38,433 –> 00:59:42,933
in that we pulled off the concentrate of the ice cider

1646
00:59:42,933 –> 00:59:45,100
that we wanted to put into those bottles

1647
00:59:45,466 –> 00:59:47,133
then we let the solution

1648
00:59:47,600 –> 00:59:48,866
refreeze all together

1649
00:59:48,866 –> 00:59:50,466
we didn’t pull the ice cap out

1650
00:59:50,466 –> 00:59:51,833
that was the problem

1651
00:59:51,900 –> 00:59:54,166
so it all refroze together

1652
00:59:54,400 –> 00:59:56,233
and then it sort of

1653
00:59:56,300 –> 00:59:58,400
reconcentrated itself a tiny bit

1654
00:59:58,400 –> 01:00:00,633
it sort of does the process again but it’s a

1655
01:00:00,633 –> 01:00:04,266
it’s a not as concentrated melt the second time so that

1656
01:00:04,266 –> 01:00:06,900
that freezing process will clarify it every time

1657
01:00:07,000 –> 01:00:09,533
just a little bit lower yield each time

1658
01:00:10,000 –> 01:00:11,866
um and part of that

1659
01:00:11,866 –> 01:00:15,066
was that there was less sugar to start

1660
01:00:15,066 –> 01:00:18,366
so it was able to ferment all the way to dry

1661
01:00:18,633 –> 01:00:22,233
so it was able to ferment to about

1662
01:00:23,000 –> 01:00:25,233
16% alcohol

1663
01:00:25,533 –> 01:00:29,300
whereas if it had all of that intensity

1664
01:00:29,400 –> 01:00:30,600
it would have killed the alcohol

1665
01:00:30,600 –> 01:00:33,000
the yeast would have died from the alcohol

1666
01:00:33,466 –> 01:00:36,600
um so it just was this sort of what

1667
01:00:36,666 –> 01:00:38,133
what happened

1668
01:00:38,133 –> 01:00:39,033
what do we do

1669
01:00:39,033 –> 01:00:41,900
it tastes very savory

1670
01:00:42,100 –> 01:00:43,533
it’s very intense

1671
01:00:43,533 –> 01:00:47,333
it’s way too high in alcohol to really call it cider

1672
01:00:47,333 –> 01:00:51,000
haha um and so we uh

1673
01:00:51,000 –> 01:00:53,500
collaborated with another Vermont producer

1674
01:00:53,666 –> 01:00:55,533
um who is actually a very

1675
01:00:55,700 –> 01:00:57,833
well renowned wine uh

1676
01:00:57,833 –> 01:00:59,000
maker in Vermont

1677
01:00:59,000 –> 01:01:00,700
her name is Deirdre Hicken

1678
01:01:00,866 –> 01:01:03,733
she produces LA Garagista wines

1679
01:01:03,800 –> 01:01:05,500
um she’s you know

1680
01:01:05,500 –> 01:01:07,100
you may have seen her in New York Times

1681
01:01:07,100 –> 01:01:08,066
Wine Enthusiast

1682
01:01:08,066 –> 01:01:10,700
she’s she’s very prolific wine

1683
01:01:10,700 –> 01:01:11,766
wine producer

1684
01:01:12,033 –> 01:01:13,833
but her background is in

1685
01:01:14,000 –> 01:01:15,866
Italian wine and

1686
01:01:15,866 –> 01:01:17,166
vermouth and amaro

1687
01:01:17,466 –> 01:01:21,466
so she was able to source botanicals and aromatics

1688
01:01:21,466 –> 01:01:24,333
all locally to the Northeast Kingdom to Vermont

1689
01:01:24,833 –> 01:01:27,133
and she made these beautiful recipes

1690
01:01:27,433 –> 01:01:30,366
to use with our base cider

1691
01:01:30,700 –> 01:01:32,300
are based on your teeth

1692
01:01:32,300 –> 01:01:34,100
I misspoke sorry you guys

1693
01:01:34,100 –> 01:01:35,066
happy mistake

1694
01:01:35,066 –> 01:01:36,200
yeah and you’re

1695
01:01:36,200 –> 01:01:37,433
seriously yeah

1696
01:01:37,433 –> 01:01:39,133
this Orleans cider

1697
01:01:39,133 –> 01:01:41,033
Apertif is yeah

1698
01:01:41,033 –> 01:01:42,900
if you have any affinity towards

1699
01:01:42,900 –> 01:01:43,933
your mood yeah

1700
01:01:43,933 –> 01:01:45,433
it it drinks like a

1701
01:01:47,033 –> 01:01:48,000
it is so good

1702
01:01:48,000 –> 01:01:50,233
Madeira uh yeah

1703
01:01:50,233 –> 01:01:53,333
Sherry if you like anything like that

1704
01:01:53,500 –> 01:01:55,000
this is very

1705
01:01:55,000 –> 01:01:55,666
we have to get more

1706
01:01:55,666 –> 01:01:57,533
why do we not have some in our fridge at all times

1707
01:01:57,533 –> 01:01:59,833
it’s so yeah

1708
01:01:59,833 –> 01:02:01,466
we don’t we don’t have some in our fridge at all times

1709
01:02:01,466 –> 01:02:03,533
because we go through it too quickly yeah

1710
01:02:04,866 –> 01:02:06,533
so good welcome everyone

1711
01:02:06,533 –> 01:02:08,733
nice to see your faces and your knees and

1712
01:02:09,233 –> 01:02:10,066
all that good stuff

1713
01:02:10,066 –> 01:02:11,666
so feel free to meet yourselves

1714
01:02:11,666 –> 01:02:14,100
and just jump on into the conversation here

1715
01:02:14,433 –> 01:02:16,433
Jay I know you had a question about UV

1716
01:02:16,433 –> 01:02:18,400
does UV play a role in

1717
01:02:18,400 –> 01:02:20,966
when they’re at the juices sitting outside and

1718
01:02:21,933 –> 01:02:24,733
the degradation of the juice from UV

1719
01:02:24,733 –> 01:02:27,133
but it looks like those are pretty well shielded

1720
01:02:27,666 –> 01:02:30,000
they are um also

1721
01:02:30,000 –> 01:02:33,600
at the time that we are making and melting the cider

1722
01:02:33,733 –> 01:02:35,533
we’re not getting a ton of sunlight in a day

1723
01:02:35,533 –> 01:02:36,766
like four hours

1724
01:02:39,700 –> 01:02:40,900
so there’s that

1725
01:02:41,000 –> 01:02:45,933
but I will say that the difference in heat fluctuation

1726
01:02:45,933 –> 01:02:49,033
in the melting process is something very beneficial

1727
01:02:49,266 –> 01:02:52,600
uh sort of like a diurnal swing in wine night

1728
01:02:52,600 –> 01:02:55,300
nights are cold days are warm um

1729
01:02:55,300 –> 01:02:58,800
it makes for really beautiful texture in the beverage

1730
01:02:59,533 –> 01:03:04,600
so so those elements are actually in our favor is

1731
01:03:05,266 –> 01:03:07,366
is there something that like

1732
01:03:07,533 –> 01:03:11,366
if it were possible to get it to be frozen

1733
01:03:11,666 –> 01:03:13,800
solidly enough that you could

1734
01:03:13,800 –> 01:03:14,633
you know do the

1735
01:03:14,633 –> 01:03:17,733
that whole process in a climate or a region

1736
01:03:17,733 –> 01:03:22,066
where you would have even more significant of a swing

1737
01:03:22,066 –> 01:03:22,700
temperature swing

1738
01:03:22,700 –> 01:03:28,533
like if if it would go from like 0 to 70

1739
01:03:28,866 –> 01:03:30,300
and back and forth and back and forth

1740
01:03:30,300 –> 01:03:31,800
I know that’s dramatic

1741
01:03:31,800 –> 01:03:33,800
like a 70 degree temperature swing

1742
01:03:33,933 –> 01:03:35,433
but do you feel like that

1743
01:03:35,433 –> 01:03:40,300
that would even encourage a greater level of uh

1744
01:03:40,300 –> 01:03:42,433
like depth of character

1745
01:03:43,833 –> 01:03:45,833
I would imagine

1746
01:03:45,933 –> 01:03:47,233
yeah I think

1747
01:03:47,233 –> 01:03:49,200
that sounds like you all need to make some ice cider

1748
01:03:49,200 –> 01:03:50,200
in the high desert

1749
01:03:50,200 –> 01:03:51,866
I think that’s like

1750
01:03:51,866 –> 01:03:54,233
the only place you’re gonna get that right

1751
01:03:55,600 –> 01:03:56,566
love it yeah

1752
01:03:58,700 –> 01:04:00,600
stretch but 50 degrees

1753
01:04:02,666 –> 01:04:05,833
hi Ed hi there hi

1754
01:04:05,933 –> 01:04:06,733
how you doing

1755
01:04:06,733 –> 01:04:08,133
hi Bob you’re familiar

1756
01:04:08,133 –> 01:04:10,133
you’re familiar with Eden Ciders right Ed

1757
01:04:10,400 –> 01:04:12,466
yeah I I I consider Eleanor a friend

1758
01:04:12,466 –> 01:04:13,533
so she’s the one that gave

1759
01:04:13,533 –> 01:04:16,033
me the 7 pound number a long time ago

1760
01:04:16,033 –> 01:04:16,900
so I just I think it’s

1761
01:04:16,900 –> 01:04:18,933
I think it’s apple inflation is what happened

1762
01:04:18,933 –> 01:04:21,266
I think it’s just the two pounds now yeah

1763
01:04:21,266 –> 01:04:21,933
I think she’s like

1764
01:04:21,933 –> 01:04:23,733
I have to up my game here a little bit

1765
01:04:23,733 –> 01:04:25,666
I’m gonna go 8 pounds this time

1766
01:04:25,666 –> 01:04:27,633
so yeah and uh

1767
01:04:28,266 –> 01:04:31,100
the ice ciders will age really well

1768
01:04:31,100 –> 01:04:33,433
I didn’t have time to do shopping before this

1769
01:04:33,433 –> 01:04:37,200
so I pulled from my seller at 2013 Heirloom Blend

1770
01:04:37,400 –> 01:04:39,700
and oh man it’s so good

1771
01:04:39,700 –> 01:04:40,866
it’s so good yeah

1772
01:04:40,866 –> 01:04:42,633
look at the color on that yeah

1773
01:04:42,633 –> 01:04:43,933
look at this it’s so

1774
01:04:45,200 –> 01:04:46,300
yeah that’s wild

1775
01:04:46,300 –> 01:04:47,700
I I did it when I saw it

1776
01:04:47,700 –> 01:04:48,833
that’s why I messaged you guys

1777
01:04:48,833 –> 01:04:50,000
I said are you drinking heirloom blends

1778
01:04:50,000 –> 01:04:52,100
if not I was gonna go rummage around to find

1779
01:04:52,300 –> 01:04:53,633
whatever was your drinking but yeah

1780
01:04:53,633 –> 01:04:55,100
this is this is a 2013

1781
01:04:55,333 –> 01:04:57,500
do you have the barrel age

1782
01:04:57,500 –> 01:04:58,466
no it’s not even no

1783
01:04:58,466 –> 01:04:59,666
no I do have the barrel age

1784
01:04:59,666 –> 01:05:01,100
but that’s not it right

1785
01:05:01,100 –> 01:05:03,233
so that’s just oxidation yeah

1786
01:05:03,233 –> 01:05:05,100
they age beautifully on the shelf

1787
01:05:05,466 –> 01:05:07,500
so fun uh huh

1788
01:05:07,900 –> 01:05:10,600
it’s great okay

1789
01:05:10,600 –> 01:05:12,233
we’re we’re gonna try to be quiet for a minute

1790
01:05:12,233 –> 01:05:13,700
because we’ll just keep talking you guys

1791
01:05:13,700 –> 01:05:15,533
so if you guys have questions or thoughts

1792
01:05:15,700 –> 01:05:17,433
favorites thoughts

1793
01:05:17,533 –> 01:05:19,900
would you guys appreciate like

1794
01:05:19,900 –> 01:05:23,233
thank you okay

1795
01:05:23,233 –> 01:05:23,666
count and step

1796
01:05:23,666 –> 01:05:25,133
are you guys big cider drinkers

1797
01:05:26,500 –> 01:05:29,033
yeah you guys like cider yeah

1798
01:05:32,100 –> 01:05:33,400
we can’t hear you

1799
01:05:34,600 –> 01:05:36,533
I see you’re talking and you’re not muted

1800
01:05:36,533 –> 01:05:37,766
but we can’t hear you

1801
01:05:39,733 –> 01:05:41,433
yeah we’ll work it out

1802
01:05:41,433 –> 01:05:43,033
we’ll work it out right

1803
01:05:43,033 –> 01:05:44,700
is that better yeah

1804
01:05:45,833 –> 01:05:48,666
I like dry ciders so these are perfect

1805
01:05:48,666 –> 01:05:52,233
I’m not a big fan of sweet ciders yeah

1806
01:05:53,200 –> 01:05:55,600
there’s a winery outside of Santa Fe

1807
01:05:55,600 –> 01:05:57,800
that has nice dry ciders that we

1808
01:05:57,800 –> 01:06:00,166
we always buy bottles every time we’re there

1809
01:06:00,233 –> 01:06:02,266
Black Mesa oh

1810
01:06:02,266 –> 01:06:03,433
you have to let us know what that is

1811
01:06:03,433 –> 01:06:04,266
I’m not sure yeah

1812
01:06:04,266 –> 01:06:05,466
do you know the name of hand

1813
01:06:05,466 –> 01:06:06,800
it’s Black Mesa

1814
01:06:06,866 –> 01:06:07,633
oh Black Mesa

1815
01:06:07,633 –> 01:06:08,600
oh you just said that

1816
01:06:08,600 –> 01:06:10,600
yeah hmm that’s cool

1817
01:06:10,600 –> 01:06:11,633
that’s cool

1818
01:06:11,733 –> 01:06:12,933
I love Santa Fe

1819
01:06:13,400 –> 01:06:18,000
um what’s the cider house that’s near

1820
01:06:18,200 –> 01:06:20,333
common stuff that we also love

1821
01:06:21,266 –> 01:06:23,966
is it Bishop Arts or East Cyrus

1822
01:06:24,400 –> 01:06:26,800
I think for the two big Dallas ones

1823
01:06:26,800 –> 01:06:28,300
wait what were you thinking

1824
01:06:28,300 –> 01:06:29,433
no I’m sorry

1825
01:06:29,433 –> 01:06:31,266
I’m thinking like the Carolina is

1826
01:06:31,266 –> 01:06:32,800
I forgot you guys are into oh

1827
01:06:32,800 –> 01:06:33,800
botanist and barrel

1828
01:06:33,900 –> 01:06:34,800
oh they’re so great

1829
01:06:34,800 –> 01:06:36,166
I saw them last night

1830
01:06:36,333 –> 01:06:38,000
oh good tell them we said hi

1831
01:06:38,000 –> 01:06:39,333
we love box girl yeah

1832
01:06:39,333 –> 01:06:40,833
they’re out down in North Carolina

1833
01:06:40,833 –> 01:06:42,566
they’re actually down near Larissa

1834
01:06:42,633 –> 01:06:44,233
um stuff I misplaced

1835
01:06:45,866 –> 01:06:47,000
um yeah so Larissa

1836
01:06:47,000 –> 01:06:48,233
you’re kind of near botanist and barrel

1837
01:06:48,233 –> 01:06:48,866
you should check them out

1838
01:06:48,866 –> 01:06:50,466
but they do a lot of really fun

1839
01:06:50,466 –> 01:06:52,033
kind of native fermentation

1840
01:06:52,033 –> 01:06:53,100
fun things with fruits

1841
01:06:53,100 –> 01:06:55,000
like they do a lot of fun stuff too

1842
01:06:55,100 –> 01:06:56,400
for sure yeah

1843
01:06:57,133 –> 01:06:57,933
that’s a good oh

1844
01:06:57,933 –> 01:07:00,266
is there a particular glass that’s unique for cider

1845
01:07:00,266 –> 01:07:01,700
I’m not familiar with this

1846
01:07:01,866 –> 01:07:03,033
yeah Riley what do you think

1847
01:07:03,033 –> 01:07:03,933
what glass what glass

1848
01:07:03,933 –> 01:07:05,066
where do you drink your cider

1849
01:07:05,066 –> 01:07:07,166
make a cider glass yep

1850
01:07:07,466 –> 01:07:08,900
uh not really

1851
01:07:08,900 –> 01:07:10,800
um I think that the big

1852
01:07:10,800 –> 01:07:13,866
there’s two camps of pint glass or wine glass

1853
01:07:13,866 –> 01:07:17,233
I stand firmly in the all purpose wine glass camp

1854
01:07:17,400 –> 01:07:19,333
for cider um

1855
01:07:19,400 –> 01:07:20,200
sometimes ice cider

1856
01:07:20,200 –> 01:07:22,700
it’s nice out of a cordial glass just because it’s

1857
01:07:22,700 –> 01:07:24,300
it’s meant for a small pour

1858
01:07:24,500 –> 01:07:25,633
um but for me

1859
01:07:25,633 –> 01:07:27,433
I actually like my ice cider in a

1860
01:07:27,433 –> 01:07:29,333
all purpose glass for aromatics

1861
01:07:29,333 –> 01:07:30,300
that’s just me

1862
01:07:30,300 –> 01:07:32,100
I agree yeah

1863
01:07:32,400 –> 01:07:33,100
yeah I mean

1864
01:07:33,100 –> 01:07:37,300
it’s funny you would say that because I had grabbed my

1865
01:07:37,300 –> 01:07:38,300
I usually have like a

1866
01:07:38,300 –> 01:07:40,800
like a little nonic pint that I use for cider

1867
01:07:40,800 –> 01:07:41,600
but it’s a smaller one

1868
01:07:41,600 –> 01:07:42,700
it’s only 12 ounces

1869
01:07:42,700 –> 01:07:46,800
yeah and then when I saw Suzanne and

1870
01:07:47,200 –> 01:07:48,500
and Evan with their glasses

1871
01:07:48,500 –> 01:07:52,166
I quickly got up and went and got my wine glass haha

1872
01:07:52,233 –> 01:07:53,133
our suggestion

1873
01:07:53,133 –> 01:07:56,533
I got peer pressured into changing my glass room yeah

1874
01:07:56,533 –> 01:07:59,300
I used to be the tall Tulip when I’m checking slider

1875
01:07:59,666 –> 01:08:01,066
yeah I think it’s

1876
01:08:01,066 –> 01:08:02,733
I really think that’s a personal

1877
01:08:02,733 –> 01:08:03,733
subjective thing for me

1878
01:08:03,733 –> 01:08:06,200
cause I come from wine that it’s just

1879
01:08:06,200 –> 01:08:07,333
that’s how I you know

1880
01:08:07,333 –> 01:08:10,533
I like a smaller pour just so I can

1881
01:08:11,200 –> 01:08:12,733
drink more things maybe

1882
01:08:13,800 –> 01:08:15,800
yeah and I do think it is a little bit of like

1883
01:08:15,800 –> 01:08:17,800
whether you kind of think of cider

1884
01:08:18,266 –> 01:08:20,266
as a wine or a beer a little bit

1885
01:08:20,266 –> 01:08:20,933
you know like

1886
01:08:20,933 –> 01:08:21,933
and I do think

1887
01:08:22,100 –> 01:08:24,300
where a lot of people first encounter ciders

1888
01:08:24,300 –> 01:08:25,733
I do think is at breweries

1889
01:08:25,733 –> 01:08:28,333
you know or at beer bars or at

1890
01:08:28,333 –> 01:08:28,900
you know that’s

1891
01:08:28,900 –> 01:08:30,433
that’s an alternative cause it

1892
01:08:30,433 –> 01:08:31,433
it kind of started getting

1893
01:08:31,433 –> 01:08:32,666
a little mainstream with the like

1894
01:08:32,666 –> 01:08:36,000
this is a good gluten free alternative to beer right

1895
01:08:36,066 –> 01:08:39,000
and so I think it got really aligned with beer

1896
01:08:39,000 –> 01:08:40,933
because of that very early on

1897
01:08:40,933 –> 01:08:41,866
and so you know

1898
01:08:41,866 –> 01:08:43,066
of course beer

1899
01:08:43,066 –> 01:08:44,866
bars and breweries are gonna serve it in a pint glass

1900
01:08:44,866 –> 01:08:45,900
of course they are you know

1901
01:08:45,900 –> 01:08:47,433
that’s what the glass where they have all handed

1902
01:08:47,433 –> 01:08:48,466
yeah absolutely

1903
01:08:48,466 –> 01:08:49,666
and where is like

1904
01:08:49,666 –> 01:08:51,433
I definitely like

1905
01:08:51,666 –> 01:08:52,700
when I’m gonna drink a beer

1906
01:08:52,700 –> 01:08:53,933
like I don’t even think of cider

1907
01:08:53,933 –> 01:08:55,466
like it’s just a different thing to me

1908
01:08:55,466 –> 01:08:57,866
and so I always think of it as wine

1909
01:08:57,866 –> 01:09:00,000
and I have it with my cheese plate in a wine glass

1910
01:09:00,000 –> 01:09:01,233
or with my you know

1911
01:09:01,300 –> 01:09:02,266
I wonder too

1912
01:09:02,266 –> 01:09:04,133
if there’s even an avenue

1913
01:09:04,133 –> 01:09:05,200
well at least

1914
01:09:05,933 –> 01:09:07,033
at least here

1915
01:09:07,033 –> 01:09:08,500
but in general

1916
01:09:08,500 –> 01:09:09,200
given the kind

1917
01:09:09,200 –> 01:09:10,633
the conversation that we’re having earlier

1918
01:09:10,633 –> 01:09:12,600
with regard to the fact that generally

1919
01:09:12,866 –> 01:09:15,633
cider is a blend of multiple different

1920
01:09:15,633 –> 01:09:17,533
varietals of apples

1921
01:09:17,933 –> 01:09:19,733
and conversely

1922
01:09:19,833 –> 01:09:22,633
the the whole line of varietal wine

1923
01:09:22,633 –> 01:09:25,100
glass that Riddle has produced over the years

1924
01:09:25,533 –> 01:09:29,433
is because it’s a specific grape that

1925
01:09:29,833 –> 01:09:32,433
while it might be different if it’s grown in

1926
01:09:32,533 –> 01:09:35,366
borosa as opposed to northern Rome

1927
01:09:35,400 –> 01:09:39,533
saraw has some characteristics that are

1928
01:09:40,666 –> 01:09:44,300
universal and so a glass that might work for that

1929
01:09:44,300 –> 01:09:45,833
particular varietal

1930
01:09:46,500 –> 01:09:48,933
seems like it’s something that’s worthwhile to make

1931
01:09:48,933 –> 01:09:52,100
whereas um if you’re gonna combine

1932
01:09:52,100 –> 01:09:54,433
Macintosh and cabinet or um

1933
01:09:54,433 –> 01:09:55,666
Macintosh and yeah

1934
01:09:55,666 –> 01:09:56,300
they’re blended

1935
01:09:56,300 –> 01:09:57,933
so Kingston mostly

1936
01:09:58,133 –> 01:10:00,100
you’re not gonna have the

1937
01:10:00,500 –> 01:10:03,666
the opportunity to have a varietal glass

1938
01:10:03,666 –> 01:10:04,933
yeah for cider

1939
01:10:05,233 –> 01:10:06,900
yeah yeah yeah

1940
01:10:06,900 –> 01:10:08,133
so I think your standard wine glasses

1941
01:10:08,133 –> 01:10:09,133
that’s all they are answer

1942
01:10:09,133 –> 01:10:10,333
yep I’m works

1943
01:10:10,333 –> 01:10:11,700
I’m all in works for us

1944
01:10:11,700 –> 01:10:13,166
we already have too many glasses

1945
01:10:13,433 –> 01:10:15,300
we don’t need to have a whole set of cider glasses

1946
01:10:15,300 –> 01:10:16,766
on top of our wine glasses

1947
01:10:18,633 –> 01:10:20,566
so many glasses so many

1948
01:10:23,433 –> 01:10:28,700
hmm questions comments don’t be shy curiosities

1949
01:10:30,300 –> 01:10:32,700
this is so hard for me to stay quiet

1950
01:10:34,666 –> 01:10:36,033
I know this

1951
01:10:37,833 –> 01:10:39,933
I’ve got to try that one on the the grape skins

1952
01:10:39,933 –> 01:10:40,866
I haven’t had that

1953
01:10:40,866 –> 01:10:44,533
so that sounded so good when you were talking about it

1954
01:10:45,866 –> 01:10:49,300
that was a small batch run that we did yeah um

1955
01:10:49,300 –> 01:10:53,233
and it was a one off and it has sold like gangbusters

1956
01:10:53,233 –> 01:10:56,700
it actually won a top 10 cider in USA Today this year

1957
01:10:56,700 –> 01:10:58,033
oh wow yeah

1958
01:10:58,266 –> 01:11:00,500
yeah it was really exciting very cool

1959
01:11:00,733 –> 01:11:03,433
and we should get it out to you sooner than later

1960
01:11:03,900 –> 01:11:04,733
I’ll get there

1961
01:11:04,733 –> 01:11:09,400
I made do with another Eden that I had so perfect

1962
01:11:09,400 –> 01:11:11,266
so I can play along but yeah

1963
01:11:11,266 –> 01:11:13,100
that one that I think of the

1964
01:11:13,100 –> 01:11:14,300
the four that are there

1965
01:11:14,300 –> 01:11:15,300
that’s the one that I haven’t had

1966
01:11:15,300 –> 01:11:16,600
so I’ll get some now

1967
01:11:16,600 –> 01:11:17,733
what are you drinking

1968
01:11:18,300 –> 01:11:19,766
yeah whatever Eden went to

1969
01:11:19,800 –> 01:11:21,166
this was um

1970
01:11:21,266 –> 01:11:22,833
it’s a one of the seller series

1971
01:11:22,833 –> 01:11:24,133
it’s the Siren song

1972
01:11:24,133 –> 01:11:27,033
oh you lucky dog so yeah

1973
01:11:27,033 –> 01:11:30,400
sort of French style teller No. 9 yeah

1974
01:11:30,400 –> 01:11:31,400
yeah it’s really good

1975
01:11:31,400 –> 01:11:33,100
and then we did open

1976
01:11:33,433 –> 01:11:36,000
a crab apple one and from the seller series

1977
01:11:36,000 –> 01:11:38,666
um last year

1978
01:11:38,666 –> 01:11:42,100
sort of the fall last year and it was fantastic

1979
01:11:42,100 –> 01:11:43,100
I took a picture

1980
01:11:43,100 –> 01:11:45,166
I can’t remember which one it is off the top of my head

1981
01:11:45,233 –> 01:11:48,366
but it was drinking so well awesome

1982
01:11:48,400 –> 01:11:50,466
it was just so good yeah

1983
01:11:50,466 –> 01:11:52,000
the one on the the um

1984
01:11:52,000 –> 01:11:54,000
grape skins was probably my favorite tonight

1985
01:11:54,000 –> 01:11:56,000
it’s so sweet yeah

1986
01:11:56,633 –> 01:11:59,633
it has beautiful acidity that it has that wine like

1987
01:11:59,633 –> 01:12:04,266
acidity that like is just a little adjacent to cider

1988
01:12:04,266 –> 01:12:06,066
and it really the mouth feel is

1989
01:12:06,066 –> 01:12:08,200
hmm yeah yeah

1990
01:12:08,200 –> 01:12:11,566
and the aromatics that I feel like that you know

1991
01:12:12,233 –> 01:12:15,500
how long does the cider spend on those

1992
01:12:15,500 –> 01:12:17,333
the spent Riesling skins

1993
01:12:17,433 –> 01:12:19,500
it was two weeks okay

1994
01:12:19,500 –> 01:12:24,300
so it was 2 weeks with almost daily punchdowns

1995
01:12:24,700 –> 01:12:26,900
and this was post fermentation

1996
01:12:27,133 –> 01:12:28,466
during fermentation

1997
01:12:28,466 –> 01:12:29,733
during fermentation

1998
01:12:29,800 –> 01:12:31,000
so you’re getting

1999
01:12:31,533 –> 01:12:32,233
you’re getting

2000
01:12:32,233 –> 01:12:35,400
more extraction because the alcohol is a solvent and

2001
01:12:35,400 –> 01:12:37,800
helping to pull that stuff out oh yeah

2002
01:12:38,833 –> 01:12:40,200
did you use your standard

2003
01:12:40,800 –> 01:12:44,800
or they close with like a air lock like here

2004
01:12:45,700 –> 01:12:47,633
yeah so they’ll have an air lock

2005
01:12:48,000 –> 01:12:49,133
yeah yeah we

2006
01:12:49,133 –> 01:12:51,733
we have mostly variable capacity tanks

2007
01:12:53,000 –> 01:12:54,833
and then how does the punch that works out

2008
01:12:54,833 –> 01:12:57,000
mechanical inside the tank or uh no

2009
01:12:57,000 –> 01:13:00,433
we just take the lid off and take a like a long paddle

2010
01:13:00,433 –> 01:13:03,233
yeah ha ha ha ha like a lamp post

2011
01:13:03,233 –> 01:13:05,000
ha ha ha ha ha

2012
01:13:05,000 –> 01:13:08,366
it’s got a little X on it yeah ha ha

2013
01:13:09,533 –> 01:13:10,800
and there’s no oil right

2014
01:13:10,800 –> 01:13:11,633
it’s not like beer

2015
01:13:11,633 –> 01:13:12,633
right you go

2016
01:13:12,633 –> 01:13:15,266
you just ferment the juice as is

2017
01:13:15,266 –> 01:13:16,833
yep and that’s it

2018
01:13:16,833 –> 01:13:17,766
yeah that’s it

2019
01:13:18,900 –> 01:13:19,800
I’m realizing

2020
01:13:19,800 –> 01:13:23,033
um I missed a question from Jill earlier about

2021
01:13:23,133 –> 01:13:23,900
collaborations

2022
01:13:23,900 –> 01:13:26,066
if you if you guys have done collaborations

2023
01:13:26,066 –> 01:13:28,033
with other brands or other you know

2024
01:13:28,033 –> 01:13:29,966
you definitely collaborate with like

2025
01:13:30,000 –> 01:13:32,733
Vermont growers and Vermont kind of brands a lot

2026
01:13:32,733 –> 01:13:34,033
but I’d love to hear about

2027
01:13:34,033 –> 01:13:35,400
and Shelbourne Vineyards

2028
01:13:35,400 –> 01:13:36,466
yeah I don’t know her

2029
01:13:36,466 –> 01:13:37,600
about collaborations

2030
01:13:37,600 –> 01:13:39,500
that’s more than a collaboration also yeah

2031
01:13:39,500 –> 01:13:40,700
I’d love to hear about like

2032
01:13:40,700 –> 01:13:43,666
what the future of Eat Insiders is looking like

2033
01:13:43,666 –> 01:13:44,733
like especially with these

2034
01:13:44,733 –> 01:13:47,100
you know Shelbourne Vineyards and all of these changes

2035
01:13:47,100 –> 01:13:48,866
and so what are you excited about

2036
01:13:48,866 –> 01:13:50,133
kind of the future of Eden

2037
01:13:50,133 –> 01:13:51,666
as we kind of talk about what collaborations

2038
01:13:51,666 –> 01:13:52,633
you’ve done in the past

2039
01:13:52,633 –> 01:13:55,466
yeah um the answer is yes

2040
01:13:55,466 –> 01:13:56,966
I think collaborations

2041
01:13:57,066 –> 01:14:01,500
are so important for the success of any producer

2042
01:14:01,500 –> 01:14:02,833
I think that

2043
01:14:03,266 –> 01:14:06,433
existing in your own echo chamber is so dangerous

2044
01:14:06,633 –> 01:14:08,466
and there’s so many different techniques

2045
01:14:08,466 –> 01:14:10,100
and approaches and perspectives out there

2046
01:14:10,100 –> 01:14:12,600
that collaborations are necessary

2047
01:14:13,000 –> 01:14:14,533
so excellent question

2048
01:14:15,066 –> 01:14:19,633
we’ve done some notable collaborations with um

2049
01:14:20,000 –> 01:14:23,166
Tilted Shed and Sonoma

2050
01:14:23,533 –> 01:14:25,133
um we love Ellen

2051
01:14:25,133 –> 01:14:26,333
she’s amazing

2052
01:14:26,333 –> 01:14:29,833
we do a recurring collaboration with Ancho Cider

2053
01:14:29,933 –> 01:14:31,833
um down out of Virginia

2054
01:14:31,933 –> 01:14:33,900
and that one is really close to our hearts

2055
01:14:33,900 –> 01:14:36,433
um that that comes out every March

2056
01:14:36,433 –> 01:14:39,300
and it’s sort of we

2057
01:14:39,300 –> 01:14:40,833
we share um

2058
01:14:41,433 –> 01:14:42,466
juice so we’ll

2059
01:14:42,466 –> 01:14:44,900
we’ll ship juice back and forth to each other

2060
01:14:44,900 –> 01:14:49,600
so they’ll make one cider that’s called nevertheless

2061
01:14:49,700 –> 01:14:52,833
and we make one cider that’s called we processed

2062
01:14:53,066 –> 01:14:54,700
so it’s nevertheless we persist

2063
01:14:54,700 –> 01:14:56,233
and it’s for Women’s Month

2064
01:14:56,300 –> 01:14:58,266
um yeah nevertheless

2065
01:14:58,266 –> 01:14:59,700
we persisted yep

2066
01:15:00,000 –> 01:15:01,133
we persist yep

2067
01:15:01,133 –> 01:15:03,333
yep so that’s a notable one that’s recurring

2068
01:15:03,333 –> 01:15:05,733
so I love that one um

2069
01:15:05,733 –> 01:15:08,133
and then we also

2070
01:15:08,400 –> 01:15:09,633
I have a really exciting

2071
01:15:09,633 –> 01:15:13,033
project that’s coming out in may with a small um

2072
01:15:13,233 –> 01:15:15,833
specialty grocery store in Philadelphia area

2073
01:15:15,833 –> 01:15:17,700
The Bruno Brothers is what it’s called

2074
01:15:17,700 –> 01:15:20,233
if anyone’s from that area um

2075
01:15:20,500 –> 01:15:22,233
but we are doing

2076
01:15:22,800 –> 01:15:25,200
um a a co ferment

2077
01:15:25,233 –> 01:15:27,500
which is leads me to my next point

2078
01:15:27,500 –> 01:15:30,166
that’s what I’m excited about um

2079
01:15:30,500 –> 01:15:33,033
apples and grapes fermented together

2080
01:15:33,200 –> 01:15:34,333
apples and plums

2081
01:15:34,333 –> 01:15:35,733
apples and peaches

2082
01:15:35,800 –> 01:15:38,433
grapes and apples and quince

2083
01:15:38,433 –> 01:15:41,300
why not growing what

2084
01:15:41,300 –> 01:15:42,733
what fermenting

2085
01:15:42,733 –> 01:15:44,033
what grows in abundance

2086
01:15:44,033 –> 01:15:45,233
where we are

2087
01:15:45,400 –> 01:15:47,466
is really the future

2088
01:15:47,466 –> 01:15:49,400
I mean yeah

2089
01:15:49,400 –> 01:15:50,366
look around

2090
01:15:50,400 –> 01:15:51,500
global whatever

2091
01:15:51,500 –> 01:15:52,733
I don’t wanna get political

2092
01:15:52,733 –> 01:15:58,733
but what’s gonna grow where is tenuous at best

2093
01:15:58,733 –> 01:16:02,900
so attaching ourselves to one style

2094
01:16:03,266 –> 01:16:05,200
or being very dogmatic

2095
01:16:05,200 –> 01:16:08,000
about what we’re gonna grow and what we’re gonna press

2096
01:16:08,000 –> 01:16:10,700
is only going to lead us to failure

2097
01:16:10,700 –> 01:16:13,266
because we are completely at the whim of Mother Nature

2098
01:16:13,266 –> 01:16:14,833
it’s an agricultural product

2099
01:16:15,066 –> 01:16:18,033
and we’re in a tough growing region um

2100
01:16:18,033 –> 01:16:19,633
so this year

2101
01:16:19,633 –> 01:16:21,133
for instance um

2102
01:16:21,500 –> 01:16:25,133
we had a very devastating late season frost in may

2103
01:16:25,400 –> 01:16:27,500
and many producers

2104
01:16:27,500 –> 01:16:31,300
had 100% crop loss so like

2105
01:16:32,300 –> 01:16:33,866
I’m just gonna leave that there for a second

2106
01:16:33,866 –> 01:16:35,800
100% crop loss

2107
01:16:35,800 –> 01:16:36,866
that does not happen

2108
01:16:36,866 –> 01:16:39,133
like there’s tough years

2109
01:16:39,133 –> 01:16:42,100
but this is serious um

2110
01:16:42,100 –> 01:16:43,733
so we’re gonna need to be

2111
01:16:43,833 –> 01:16:46,033
community where there’s a lot of

2112
01:16:46,033 –> 01:16:47,133
I have apples

2113
01:16:47,133 –> 01:16:49,100
because I’m a little further north

2114
01:16:49,100 –> 01:16:52,266
so my trees weren’t as vulnerable

2115
01:16:52,266 –> 01:16:54,566
they hadn’t gone so far into

2116
01:16:54,933 –> 01:16:56,233
you know ripening

2117
01:16:56,233 –> 01:16:58,000
into bud break we call it

2118
01:16:58,433 –> 01:17:00,833
so those apples were able to grow and ripen

2119
01:17:01,833 –> 01:17:03,100
our Vineyard partners

2120
01:17:03,100 –> 01:17:05,666
had about 60% crop loss from their grapes

2121
01:17:05,666 –> 01:17:06,466
from the frost

2122
01:17:06,466 –> 01:17:10,066
so just to achieve the volume that they really need

2123
01:17:10,066 –> 01:17:12,900
we’re going to be doing a lot of apple grape coferments

2124
01:17:13,200 –> 01:17:15,666
and I started this whole Tangent with this

2125
01:17:15,666 –> 01:17:18,400
project that we’re doing with a specialty grocery store

2126
01:17:18,466 –> 01:17:20,833
which is a cider

2127
01:17:20,833 –> 01:17:23,200
pet net that is fermented

2128
01:17:23,266 –> 01:17:25,166
with a little bit of white

2129
01:17:26,300 –> 01:17:30,100
white wine and on red grape skins

2130
01:17:31,466 –> 01:17:33,366
it’s kind of like making soup

2131
01:17:34,700 –> 01:17:37,800
but I think this yeah

2132
01:17:38,300 –> 01:17:39,933
that’s the kind of soup I eat yeah

2133
01:17:39,933 –> 01:17:43,100
yeah so I think that’s something that’s super exciting

2134
01:17:43,100 –> 01:17:47,033
for me is that often when those things are co fermented

2135
01:17:47,033 –> 01:17:49,500
when they’re all in the tank together um

2136
01:17:49,500 –> 01:17:52,233
they’re very often greater than the some of their parts

2137
01:17:52,400 –> 01:17:55,833
and it’s almost a whole new frontier of fermented

2138
01:17:55,833 –> 01:18:01,300
beverages that is like the limit does not exist of that

2139
01:18:01,300 –> 01:18:04,733
algorithm of apple varieties and great varieties and

2140
01:18:04,800 –> 01:18:06,766
whatever else is growing rose

2141
01:18:06,900 –> 01:18:08,400
why not you know

2142
01:18:08,533 –> 01:18:11,766
so I think that’s sort of the future

2143
01:18:12,000 –> 01:18:13,133
if you ask me

2144
01:18:13,133 –> 01:18:15,233
I hope Riley

2145
01:18:15,233 –> 01:18:17,733
with that kind of concept

2146
01:18:18,733 –> 01:18:20,100
co fermenting

2147
01:18:20,933 –> 01:18:23,933
you know different versions of the same fruit

2148
01:18:23,933 –> 01:18:26,233
I e you know

2149
01:18:27,200 –> 01:18:31,033
green ganache and Sara and marvendra

2150
01:18:31,866 –> 01:18:36,966
versus co fermenting fruits of completely different

2151
01:18:37,133 –> 01:18:38,600
you know families

2152
01:18:38,900 –> 01:18:42,600
co fermenting pineapple with plum and an apple

2153
01:18:42,800 –> 01:18:44,033
what is that

2154
01:18:44,300 –> 01:18:47,433
how does that impact the

2155
01:18:48,533 –> 01:18:50,233
the east selection

2156
01:18:50,300 –> 01:18:52,033
the fermentation time

2157
01:18:52,033 –> 01:18:53,066
the fermentation temperature

2158
01:18:53,066 –> 01:18:54,900
like I I’m guessing outside in general

2159
01:18:54,900 –> 01:18:57,200
that’s that’s the frontier that we’re looking at

2160
01:18:57,200 –> 01:19:01,233
but do you have any kind of insight as to like the

2161
01:19:01,333 –> 01:19:05,066
restrictions or the challenges of co fermentation

2162
01:19:05,066 –> 01:19:07,400
when it’s different fruit that you’re fermenting

2163
01:19:07,400 –> 01:19:11,366
together yeah so um

2164
01:19:12,100 –> 01:19:16,300
obviously the ripening time is a consideration um

2165
01:19:16,800 –> 01:19:21,766
so you don’t necessarily want to throw um

2166
01:19:22,633 –> 01:19:24,333
this is mine of fermenting

2167
01:19:24,333 –> 01:19:28,233
fruit in with an already finished wine um

2168
01:19:28,433 –> 01:19:30,666
you just don’t really know what another fermentation is

2169
01:19:30,666 –> 01:19:32,100
gonna do um

2170
01:19:32,666 –> 01:19:35,800
so that’s definitely a consideration uh

2171
01:19:36,033 –> 01:19:39,733
but it’s also the concept of what grows together

2172
01:19:39,733 –> 01:19:40,800
goes together

2173
01:19:40,866 –> 01:19:43,533
apple harvest and grape harvest is the same time

2174
01:19:44,100 –> 01:19:46,600
um so there’s that uh

2175
01:19:46,600 –> 01:19:48,400
but there’s also

2176
01:19:48,733 –> 01:19:52,166
as we sort of navigate this uncertain frontier

2177
01:19:53,133 –> 01:19:54,633
it’s a bit of an insurance policy

2178
01:19:54,633 –> 01:19:57,900
if you can ferment some plums

2179
01:19:58,233 –> 01:20:01,533
and start fermenting some plums in may

2180
01:20:02,900 –> 01:20:05,800
you have this kind of cool

2181
01:20:05,800 –> 01:20:12,233
like reserve of something to play with and um sort of

2182
01:20:12,633 –> 01:20:15,033
experiment with in the fall when other things are being

2183
01:20:15,033 –> 01:20:18,200
harvested or say you have uh

2184
01:20:18,433 –> 01:20:21,100
a tough fermentation on a cider

2185
01:20:21,100 –> 01:20:24,533
but you’re able to have some

2186
01:20:25,400 –> 01:20:26,900
you know what ripens then

2187
01:20:26,900 –> 01:20:29,133
like raspberry or something

2188
01:20:29,133 –> 01:20:31,066
that could sort of help a fermentation along

2189
01:20:31,066 –> 01:20:32,733
if you’re in a stuck fermentation

2190
01:20:33,033 –> 01:20:36,600
yeah introduce a little more sugar and don’t start it

2191
01:20:36,600 –> 01:20:40,066
yeah what I do it is no

2192
01:20:40,066 –> 01:20:41,133
it’s probably not

2193
01:20:41,133 –> 01:20:43,266
because I would wanna sell it and make sure it’s good

2194
01:20:43,266 –> 01:20:45,033
but scientifically yes

2195
01:20:45,033 –> 01:20:46,000
you could do that

2196
01:20:46,200 –> 01:20:48,433
no I’m just curious

2197
01:20:48,433 –> 01:20:50,500
that’s yeah

2198
01:20:50,500 –> 01:20:51,300
such fun stuff

2199
01:20:51,300 –> 01:20:53,900
delightful yeah

2200
01:20:54,400 –> 01:20:55,266
the world of

2201
01:20:55,266 –> 01:20:57,700
the world of cider and craft alcohol in general

2202
01:20:57,700 –> 01:20:58,966
is really just

2203
01:20:59,033 –> 01:21:00,466
it keeps growing

2204
01:21:00,466 –> 01:21:03,066
and as people stop being

2205
01:21:03,066 –> 01:21:06,033
so concerned about their categories yeah

2206
01:21:09,033 –> 01:21:11,433
and soon the government might catch up

2207
01:21:12,466 –> 01:21:14,533
yeah that is the for labeling regulations

2208
01:21:14,533 –> 01:21:18,333
it’s a bit of a hellscape right now but yeah

2209
01:21:18,333 –> 01:21:20,833
how to label it how to what you name it what yeah

2210
01:21:21,000 –> 01:21:23,800
the wild rest right now though yeah

2211
01:21:24,200 –> 01:21:26,200
there’s a lot of sparkling fruit wines out there

2212
01:21:26,200 –> 01:21:27,366
that’s for sure

2213
01:21:28,866 –> 01:21:30,100
there are a lot of sparkling fruit

2214
01:21:30,100 –> 01:21:32,633
we met a wine maker here in Arizona recently

2215
01:21:32,633 –> 01:21:36,200
oh yeah on follows winery is the name of his on follows

2216
01:21:36,300 –> 01:21:37,766
which is a Greek

2217
01:21:37,833 –> 01:21:41,566
term that basically indicates the center of all things

2218
01:21:42,400 –> 01:21:43,500
center of the universe

2219
01:21:43,700 –> 01:21:47,900
and he made an award winning tomato wine

2220
01:21:48,400 –> 01:21:49,300
a few years ago

2221
01:21:49,300 –> 01:21:51,366
award winning tomato wine

2222
01:21:51,466 –> 01:21:54,233
it was the best in the fruit wine category

2223
01:21:55,133 –> 01:21:57,066
yes tomato yeah

2224
01:21:57,066 –> 01:21:58,300
we were like what

2225
01:21:58,300 –> 01:22:00,733
we were at a private dinner party with him

2226
01:22:00,733 –> 01:22:01,200
and we’re like

2227
01:22:01,200 –> 01:22:02,933
what did that taste like

2228
01:22:02,933 –> 01:22:04,266
like what are you talking about

2229
01:22:04,266 –> 01:22:05,633
like we were just like

2230
01:22:05,633 –> 01:22:07,066
and even make it again

2231
01:22:07,066 –> 01:22:08,633
and even he is like he’s like

2232
01:22:08,633 –> 01:22:10,700
I don’t know if it was good

2233
01:22:13,000 –> 01:22:17,866
but it was exceptional because of what it was made from

2234
01:22:17,866 –> 01:22:20,500
and I mean I’ve always thought that like

2235
01:22:20,500 –> 01:22:22,233
of all the fruit out there

2236
01:22:23,000 –> 01:22:26,133
tomatoes are pretty high up there

2237
01:22:26,133 –> 01:22:28,800
on the things that I would think are important

2238
01:22:29,200 –> 01:22:31,200
for being able to make wine out of it

2239
01:22:31,200 –> 01:22:33,600
because they have so much more acidity than like

2240
01:22:33,600 –> 01:22:34,633
so many other fruits

2241
01:22:34,633 –> 01:22:36,766
yeah and that’s so important

2242
01:22:37,200 –> 01:22:39,233
when you’re trying to make something that has

2243
01:22:39,266 –> 01:22:40,500
cohesive structure

2244
01:22:40,500 –> 01:22:42,800
but the other fruit wine he made that his wife

2245
01:22:42,800 –> 01:22:44,300
who is in his partner

2246
01:22:44,333 –> 01:22:46,333
said was her favorite that they’ve ever made

2247
01:22:46,333 –> 01:22:48,066
was a spiced orange wine

2248
01:22:48,066 –> 01:22:49,166
and I was like

2249
01:22:49,266 –> 01:22:50,800
this orange wine

2250
01:22:50,800 –> 01:22:51,700
like that does

2251
01:22:52,266 –> 01:22:52,933
interesting

2252
01:22:52,933 –> 01:22:53,900
yeah it’s so

2253
01:22:53,900 –> 01:22:56,433
it’s the citrus orange

2254
01:22:56,433 –> 01:22:57,800
not like a skin contact

2255
01:22:57,800 –> 01:22:59,066
once yeah yeah

2256
01:22:59,066 –> 01:23:01,500
they also made one from um

2257
01:23:02,933 –> 01:23:04,333
it’s the bush

2258
01:23:04,700 –> 01:23:06,033
oh I can’t it’s the bush

2259
01:23:06,033 –> 01:23:07,266
I didn’t even know the name of the bush

2260
01:23:07,266 –> 01:23:09,200
that has a bunch of little red berries on it

2261
01:23:09,200 –> 01:23:10,566
it’s here in Arizona

2262
01:23:11,200 –> 01:23:13,700
erronea a little red berries

2263
01:23:13,700 –> 01:23:15,033
and I can’t forget

2264
01:23:15,033 –> 01:23:15,466
what are they

2265
01:23:15,466 –> 01:23:18,200
erronea berries no berries

2266
01:23:19,066 –> 01:23:20,433
Bob Kristen

2267
01:23:20,800 –> 01:23:21,866
little red Berry

2268
01:23:21,866 –> 01:23:23,033
unmute yourself

2269
01:23:23,033 –> 01:23:27,200
tell me what the little red Berry plant is that Arizona

2270
01:23:28,800 –> 01:23:33,400
pyrocantum pyrocantum pyrocantum wine like what

2271
01:23:33,400 –> 01:23:35,033
wow it’s crazy

2272
01:23:35,066 –> 01:23:37,066
and he’s like it’s only toxic and high volume

2273
01:23:37,066 –> 01:23:39,233
you’ll never drink that

2274
01:23:40,600 –> 01:23:42,366
well don’t just steal it

2275
01:23:42,400 –> 01:23:43,633
wait Riley before we

2276
01:23:43,633 –> 01:23:44,700
before we let you go

2277
01:23:44,700 –> 01:23:45,500
you said at the beginning

2278
01:23:45,500 –> 01:23:47,533
when you’re introducing yourself that your background

2279
01:23:47,533 –> 01:23:50,500
you come from the world of natural wine yes

2280
01:23:50,833 –> 01:23:52,333
tell us a little bit about

2281
01:23:52,333 –> 01:23:54,000
what’s going on in the world of natural wine

2282
01:23:54,000 –> 01:23:55,233
if you’re still connected there at all

2283
01:23:55,233 –> 01:23:56,133
and have thoughts about that

2284
01:23:56,133 –> 01:23:57,633
cause I love natural wine

2285
01:23:57,633 –> 01:24:01,033
Evan is a little more disturning about natural wine

2286
01:24:01,333 –> 01:24:02,833
I really love orange wines

2287
01:24:02,833 –> 01:24:04,833
the funkier the better like so

2288
01:24:04,833 –> 01:24:05,333
you know like

2289
01:24:05,333 –> 01:24:08,266
I just help people understand what natural wine even is

2290
01:24:08,266 –> 01:24:11,033
just before we kind of close out here to because

2291
01:24:11,233 –> 01:24:12,133
because sip Scout members

2292
01:24:12,133 –> 01:24:14,433
I would love to do a natural wine kit in the future

2293
01:24:14,433 –> 01:24:16,933
so I have more natural wine in the world

2294
01:24:17,066 –> 01:24:21,300
um yeah natural wine is another one of these

2295
01:24:21,466 –> 01:24:23,600
pesky phrases that there is

2296
01:24:24,066 –> 01:24:27,566
not one necessarily agreed upon definition

2297
01:24:27,833 –> 01:24:30,800
um but there is a bit of an umbrella that

2298
01:24:30,800 –> 01:24:32,500
that a few um

2299
01:24:32,800 –> 01:24:35,400
philosophical wine making

2300
01:24:36,133 –> 01:24:37,833
uh wine making

2301
01:24:38,200 –> 01:24:39,800
uh methodology

2302
01:24:40,066 –> 01:24:42,733
um that is basically

2303
01:24:43,300 –> 01:24:46,733
non intervention along the process of wine making

2304
01:24:46,733 –> 01:24:48,933
um so it starts

2305
01:24:49,133 –> 01:24:50,933
it really starts with the soil

2306
01:24:50,933 –> 01:24:53,500
but it starts in the Vineyard broadly

2307
01:24:53,666 –> 01:24:57,600
um so grapes that are grown without uh

2308
01:24:57,600 –> 01:25:00,366
pesticide sprays um

2309
01:25:01,033 –> 01:25:03,000
usually grown at least uh

2310
01:25:03,000 –> 01:25:05,333
sustainably or practicing organic even

2311
01:25:05,333 –> 01:25:07,100
if they’re not certified organic

2312
01:25:07,600 –> 01:25:10,700
um so fruit that is uh

2313
01:25:11,800 –> 01:25:14,333
grown without chemical sprays

2314
01:25:15,033 –> 01:25:17,000
and then in the cellar

2315
01:25:17,000 –> 01:25:19,500
once those grapes are picked and pressed

2316
01:25:19,866 –> 01:25:24,966
uh there is no filtration on the wines um

2317
01:25:25,266 –> 01:25:27,700
usually native yeast fermented

2318
01:25:27,700 –> 01:25:31,500
so ambient yeasts and yeast that occur on the grapes

2319
01:25:31,833 –> 01:25:33,066
um like I said

2320
01:25:33,066 –> 01:25:38,066
no filtration or fining and no added sulfur at bottling

2321
01:25:38,066 –> 01:25:42,133
so only the naturally occurring sulfites so it’s um

2322
01:25:42,733 –> 01:25:47,133
it’s the way that wine was made forever before

2323
01:25:47,133 –> 01:25:48,633
you know the industrial

2324
01:25:49,233 –> 01:25:52,966
Revolution when we had all these innovations and um

2325
01:25:53,466 –> 01:25:54,733
I would add Riley

2326
01:25:54,733 –> 01:26:00,633
perhaps minimal to no irrigation yes yes

2327
01:26:02,733 –> 01:26:05,000
yes and the

2328
01:26:05,000 –> 01:26:07,633
some of the criticism of natural wine is that

2329
01:26:07,900 –> 01:26:10,700
people are not clean and sterile

2330
01:26:10,733 –> 01:26:13,033
well and and so people say oh

2331
01:26:13,033 –> 01:26:15,900
it’s just a natural wine as like an excuse for bad wine

2332
01:26:15,900 –> 01:26:17,800
but it tastes like that yeah

2333
01:26:18,433 –> 01:26:18,800
they’re like

2334
01:26:18,800 –> 01:26:20,266
oh it’s just because it’s natural

2335
01:26:20,266 –> 01:26:20,933
but really it’s like

2336
01:26:20,933 –> 01:26:21,800
because they don’t know what

2337
01:26:21,800 –> 01:26:24,033
they don’t know what they’re doing and they’re holding

2338
01:26:24,833 –> 01:26:26,333
the thing that you made it in

2339
01:26:26,333 –> 01:26:28,000
yeah yeah um

2340
01:26:28,233 –> 01:26:29,233
so I’m more than

2341
01:26:29,233 –> 01:26:30,800
I’m more than a little bit

2342
01:26:30,800 –> 01:26:32,900
uh resistant

2343
01:26:32,900 –> 01:26:34,200
you’ve been burned

2344
01:26:34,600 –> 01:26:39,233
yeah but we have a great friend here in the Sedona area

2345
01:26:39,233 –> 01:26:41,300
who has a natural wine shop actually

2346
01:26:41,300 –> 01:26:43,000
and all he has is natural wine

2347
01:26:43,000 –> 01:26:44,700
and so he knows that Evan’s been burned

2348
01:26:44,700 –> 01:26:47,233
and so he’s constantly bringing natural wise

2349
01:26:47,233 –> 01:26:47,500
and he’s like

2350
01:26:47,500 –> 01:26:48,833
no no this is a clean one

2351
01:26:48,833 –> 01:26:50,500
this is one that you’re going to be excited about

2352
01:26:50,500 –> 01:26:51,633
and so you’ve had a

2353
01:26:51,633 –> 01:26:53,333
quite a few examples that you’ve enjoyed

2354
01:26:53,333 –> 01:26:54,700
it can be done

2355
01:26:54,700 –> 01:26:58,933
yeah yeah and the idea of a flaw being a virtue

2356
01:26:59,300 –> 01:27:02,900
is maybe just a little bit of a dichopomy that I

2357
01:27:02,900 –> 01:27:05,933
can’t really get on board with sometimes

2358
01:27:06,833 –> 01:27:09,233
yeah I think that there’s um

2359
01:27:09,233 –> 01:27:11,666
also an aspect I’m sorry

2360
01:27:11,666 –> 01:27:15,533
I think there’s also an aspect to that culture of um

2361
01:27:16,866 –> 01:27:19,133
the story of the person and

2362
01:27:19,133 –> 01:27:21,333
and the land where it comes from

2363
01:27:21,333 –> 01:27:23,666
so there’s a lot more to the drinking

2364
01:27:23,666 –> 01:27:26,133
experience than what it just tastes like

2365
01:27:26,133 –> 01:27:26,900
but I’m with you

2366
01:27:26,900 –> 01:27:27,866
Evan that like

2367
01:27:27,866 –> 01:27:29,600
it should first taste good first

2368
01:27:29,600 –> 01:27:30,433
it should taste good

2369
01:27:31,200 –> 01:27:33,133
I would like it to first taste good

2370
01:27:33,200 –> 01:27:34,300
but I see value

2371
01:27:34,466 –> 01:27:36,366
I see value even in

2372
01:27:36,666 –> 01:27:39,933
you know maybe experiencing a slightly flawed wine

2373
01:27:40,000 –> 01:27:41,033
yeah for sure

2374
01:27:41,033 –> 01:27:42,066
and sometimes like

2375
01:27:42,066 –> 01:27:43,600
I don’t have a particularly

2376
01:27:46,133 –> 01:27:49,600
keen perception of fraternitis

2377
01:27:49,600 –> 01:27:51,166
for example sure

2378
01:27:51,333 –> 01:27:55,100
and I recognize that I enjoy it in some beer

2379
01:27:55,300 –> 01:27:59,033
and so that’s fine in some wine in

2380
01:27:59,266 –> 01:28:00,766
especially like in Pinot

2381
01:28:01,100 –> 01:28:03,366
a slight bit of that

2382
01:28:04,266 –> 01:28:05,700
yeah a key auntie

2383
01:28:06,300 –> 01:28:09,633
yeah yeah when it just tastes like nail polish remover

2384
01:28:09,633 –> 01:28:12,433
no you don’t get to just like shove it off and be like

2385
01:28:12,433 –> 01:28:14,800
this is a natural nail polish remover yeah

2386
01:28:16,533 –> 01:28:17,633
not what I want to drink

2387
01:28:17,633 –> 01:28:18,500
not the thing

2388
01:28:18,800 –> 01:28:20,600
but it is a very exciting category

2389
01:28:20,600 –> 01:28:22,133
that’s starting to pick up some

2390
01:28:22,133 –> 01:28:23,433
steam here in the States

2391
01:28:23,433 –> 01:28:26,733
so if you see natural wine shops or natural wine

2392
01:28:26,733 –> 01:28:28,333
like go talk to someone

2393
01:28:28,333 –> 01:28:30,466
try and have them steer you to

2394
01:28:30,466 –> 01:28:31,000
if you if you

2395
01:28:31,000 –> 01:28:32,400
I feel like if you say

2396
01:28:32,400 –> 01:28:34,700
I like the cleaner kind of natural lines

2397
01:28:34,700 –> 01:28:37,333
that usually get you in a good starting point now

2398
01:28:37,333 –> 01:28:39,666
because some of them can get very funky

2399
01:28:39,666 –> 01:28:41,900
and sometimes that funkiness is a flaw

2400
01:28:42,000 –> 01:28:44,300
and sometimes that funkiness is really fun

2401
01:28:44,300 –> 01:28:45,900
but the funky ones are a little

2402
01:28:45,900 –> 01:28:47,000
a little riskier

2403
01:28:47,133 –> 01:28:49,700
probably and be polarizing for sure yeah

2404
01:28:50,600 –> 01:28:53,200
Riley thank you so much for joining us tonight

2405
01:28:53,200 –> 01:28:54,500
this was so amazing

2406
01:28:54,500 –> 01:28:57,233
and eat insiders never disappoints

2407
01:28:57,233 –> 01:28:58,000
like you guys

2408
01:28:58,000 –> 01:28:59,966
everything I’ve ever had of yours I just

2409
01:29:00,033 –> 01:29:01,266
I’m thrilled with yeah

2410
01:29:01,266 –> 01:29:02,633
these were all delightful

2411
01:29:02,633 –> 01:29:03,900
yeah thank you

2412
01:29:03,900 –> 01:29:05,000
everyone here

2413
01:29:05,000 –> 01:29:07,000
the promo codes are in the chat

2414
01:29:07,000 –> 01:29:09,033
go stock up on some Eden cider

2415
01:29:09,033 –> 01:29:10,700
and other great craft ciders at press

2416
01:29:10,700 –> 01:29:12,900
then press um

2417
01:29:12,900 –> 01:29:13,833
and you know

2418
01:29:13,833 –> 01:29:14,500
follow along

2419
01:29:14,500 –> 01:29:15,833
eat insiders on Instagram

2420
01:29:15,833 –> 01:29:17,033
and keep an eye on what they’re doing

2421
01:29:17,033 –> 01:29:17,733
and if you’re in

2422
01:29:17,733 –> 01:29:19,333
you guys have a tasting room up in Vermont

2423
01:29:19,333 –> 01:29:20,800
people yeah

2424
01:29:20,800 –> 01:29:22,200
so in Vermont

2425
01:29:22,200 –> 01:29:24,300
you know go check them out and go

2426
01:29:24,833 –> 01:29:26,666
meet them in person and try their stuff

2427
01:29:26,666 –> 01:29:29,666
and visit the nearby town of Burlington is a delight

2428
01:29:29,666 –> 01:29:33,800
and a very worthwhile place to spend a week and go

2429
01:29:33,933 –> 01:29:36,200
yeah reverse out to Eden

2430
01:29:36,200 –> 01:29:37,066
yeah for sure

2431
01:29:37,066 –> 01:29:39,000
what’s to do and see yeah

2432
01:29:39,533 –> 01:29:41,533
everyone cheers

2433
01:29:41,666 –> 01:29:42,500
happy Thursday

2434
01:29:42,500 –> 01:29:43,800
thank you for joining us

2435
01:29:43,800 –> 01:29:44,800
thank you thank you

2436
01:29:45,466 –> 01:29:46,933
Riley thank you Riley

2437
01:29:47,266 –> 01:29:49,333
at all to say hi

2438
01:29:49,733 –> 01:29:50,733
thank you yes

2439
01:29:50,733 –> 01:29:52,733
so you do yeah

2440
01:29:52,733 –> 01:29:53,400
and as well

2441
01:29:53,400 –> 01:29:55,933
and good to see you all everyone

2442
01:29:55,933 –> 01:29:56,700
good to see you

2443
01:29:56,700 –> 01:29:57,933
thank you for joining us

2444
01:29:57,933 –> 01:29:59,000
for having me

2445
01:29:59,000 –> 01:30:00,833
take care bye guys bye

2446
01:30:01,066 –> 01:30:02,933
thank you bye bye

2447
00:00:04,666 –> 00:00:09,333
welcome welcome to our Monthly SipScout Party